I am sure this has been covered but please any and all answers are appreciated. How do you measure LOP if you are having a stock cut for you but can't handle the stock prior to? thanks, gabe

Biff---

Find a try gun and be fitted or do what most do---measure an existing gun that fits you.

Jack,

Ok here I will show my ignorance. Where exactly do you measure from to get the lop on a rifle that fits? gabe

Biff,

I always measured from the trigger (in a straight line) to the the center of the back of the recoil pad.

Here's another way to measure LOP (it's probably not very accurate - but it happens to work for me). Bend your right arm (if you are right handed) at the elbow and measure from the crook of your elbow to the first joint on your right index finger (the first crease down from your fingertip). It just so happens that the rifle that fits me the best (my old Tikka 30.06 has a LOP of 14" and my measurement from my elbow to first joint on my index finger is 14"). I have had 4 custom rifles made with a 14" LOP and all have fit me just fine.

Regards,

Terry

[ 06-08-2002, 01:20: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

biff--

First--- all measurements on a *rifle* are taken from the center-line of the bore. That's the top of the stock on most bolt actions.

Lenght of pull is center of where the trigger *should* be, (back one third of the guard) to the center of the butt.

DOC Drop at comb in top of the stock line down to the comb.

DOMC-- Drop at Monte Carlo, if it has one.

DOH-- Drop at heel.

Another measurement is pitch which is the angle of the butt compared to the bore.

Something usually left out of American guns is Cast Off. That's the amound of offset away from the face of the center-line of the butt. That ONE thing can turn a clunker into something elegant feeling. Intil you try it you'd never guess a quarter inch would make such a tremendous difference in feel and comfort.
Cast off is shaped into the stock by angling the center line of the butt from the rear tang screw to the heel.

My comments are only for rifles. For me the length of pull must be just right with the clothing that I will wear when using the rifle. And if it's not then the LOP must be shorter than that.

If a LOP is too long for me the rifle feels like it will not balance nor do I have control over it.

This may just be a personal thing with me but most of my favorite hunting rifles have a LOP of 13.25". I am of average size and my reach is 74". It would be much better if I could adapt to the standard. But I am not comfortable even after years of trying. I had bought a nice Ruger 77 in .350 Rem mag. I thought this would be a favorite as I already liked .358 Wins. So I was carrying it and a whitetail stood up in front of me out of his bed and started to run. I put up the new 77 and the butt caught on my coat. I went back to the car and got the 99 Savage with the correct LOP (for me) and that same (seemed to me) buck walked past me as I was sitting. This time I got it. I wish I had kept that .350 Rem. It was very accurate too.

For target rifles an adjustable butt plate is best.

I second Don Martin's above post, for the average person, wearing average hunting(colder weather) clothes, the LOP on most factory rifles is anywhere from a little to way too long. Within reason, shorter but correctly fitting LOP rifles handle better and shoot better for most shooters than any that are longer. Simply because it is easier to hold any weight steady that is closer to your bodies CG.

It may technically be correct to measure everything from the center of the bore and impute where you think a trigger should be, but I prefer to measure off the center of the trigger in a straight line parallel to the bore to the butt of the stock/recoil pad.That will be the actual LOP.

Ideally, if you are going to use a scope, you should have the LOP where when you mount the gun, your head is naturally placed so that your eye will be toward the rear of the scope's usable depth of field, particularly if you are using harder recoiling guns. This is usually around 3 inches plus from the rear of the scope. This can be achieved by trial and error and, of course, you usually have some adjustment available by moving the scope in the mounts.

All of the above is subject to individual shooter variation, of course. If you crawl the stock or have a long skinny neck, then you need a longer LOP, or if you have a thick neck and chest, you will need a shorter one than your other measurements might indicate.

Biff,
interesting topic, and one hard to pin down, but, let me tell you how I can get people to do it over the phone.
Take any KNOWN rifle. remove the bolt. Hold it in your shooting hand. take aim. NOW stop. take you arm slightly away from your body, turn it 90 degrees (like palm up) and lower it, horizontaly, until your elbow is at a 90 degree corner. measure the space between your forearm and the butt of the rifle. This is the GROSS length the rifle is short. Next, determine what type of hunting and clothes you'll be wearing. If it's "general" then just take off .75 an inch.
If it's less than an inch, you can order spacers from brownell's fairly cheapy. You can then do a test fit and see. Test fit means don't alter your gun in anyway, just stick the spacers between your pad and stock. When you find teh right combo, then turn them down. Also, make sure you shoulder it the same way, as if you normally snake you neck out, that will change your LOP. As I found out when I started shooting big bores, the habit of grabbing the rifle, using my head as a weight, and snakign my neck out just get's you interesting scars over your right eye.

Most rifle's I have seen are setup for a 5'10 man, and are actually too short for anyone over 6'1 or so. Too short means it doesn't fit, and you have a real good chance of getting to KNOW your scope..
My gross LOP is 16.25... I am kinda ape armed!! I usually wind up with 15.25 or so.


jeffe

I assume we are talkin rifles here. As I see it most factory rifles af way too long. My personal LOP is around 13" depending on the grip and I am quite normal (mental health not included). Very open grips like on a classic english shotguns gives a larger LOP so there is no fixed personal measure to use on all your stocks.

Everbody can shoot a rifle with a long LOP under controled conditions but under stress it can't get too short (as long as you don't get too close to the scope). Try to shoulder the rifle (wearing hunting gear) as fast as you can with your eyes closed, pull the trigger (no live round please) and reload as fast as possible with the rifle still on the shoulder. Do this several times (standing, sitting, prone ect.) and you will end up with a shorter LOP than you started up with.

There is only one way: A lot of testing with the right stock (or one with the same design).

No - you wont get to know the scope IF you just remember to mount/adjust the scope after your have made the right LOP.

Ok, While I am getting educated on stocks, here is another one. Generally speaking with harder kickers is a straight line comb or one with a slightly negative drop going to be the better for recoil management? gabe

Jeff, I tried your method or think I did an I hurt myself. Doctor said that dislocations heal fairly quickly. It was that part about moving your arm away from your body that got me.

As far as length of pull, if we are talking about scoped rifles I will give you my take on it. Height of the shooter or length of his arms has little to do with it. His configuration from the shoulders up have a lot more to do with it than anything else. When the rifle has a proper lenght of pull you should be able to shoulder the rifle and look throught the scope and not have you eye too close to the scope nor should the scope be to far away to offer a full field of view. If either of those items are not met, you have provblems and all the other methods may make the fit look great. If you have a long neck and tend to bend it forward you are going to need a longer length of pull unless you can move the scope forward and that adjustment between the rings is generally limited.

If you have a short barrel neck you my find just the opposite of the above situation.

This is the way I do it. Have the person mount the gun and look at the distance between their thumb that is over the top of the grip and their nose. You want an inch to an inch and a half distance. If is is too short, you need more and vice versa.

I have seen people with gorrila arms and short necks and when you get something that appears to fit their arms they cant see the scope. The purpose is to get your eye in the right place.

"My Method" was taught to me by an old stockmaker who is a lot smarter than me and has fitted countless stocks.

I agree with most of the above, except, that factory rifles are usually about a full inch to short for me even with my winter duds on. Makes recoil pads easy.