It has been stated or implied on another thread that to own or commission a custom rifle it is at the expense of your children. This does not have to be the case. Neither must you be independently wealthy. A lot of working class people such as myself are able to own one or more custom rifles. Now is it possible that some people who own these nice rifles have done so at the expense of their families. Sure, to say other wise would be ignoring human nature. However, what I am saying is that it does not have to be that way.

The first thing you have to do is be realistic about your present financial status. Are you living above you means? Are you carrying balances on your credit cards each month? The first thing you need to do is make a very detailed budget listing ALL of your annual expenditures: Property taxes, eating out, kids cloths, toy, presents you will buy, house payment, car payment, movie rentals, gas, utilities, automotive repair and maintenance, insurance deductibles. You must list even the very small expenditures. Some payments like homeowners insurance and car insurance are paid quarterly or semi-annually. List them on your annual budget. The more detailed you make this the better. If you shoot skeet each week list the cost of shells and range fees. Beer and cigarette costs must be listed if they apply. The more detailed you make your budget list the better you can control you living expenses. Is this fun? No. Is it a pain the backside? Yes. Once you have ALL your expenses listed on an annual basis equalize them on a per month basis. Will you repair you car or truck every month? No, but it lets you know what you need to save each month in order to service or repair it if something happens based on last years repair/service expenses.

So now you have all your expenses listed with dollar amounts by them on a monthly basis. Total this up and compare it to your Net Income after taxes, etc. If your monthly outlays total more than your income you need to go back through your listed expenses and figure out where you can reduce them. At this point you are figuring $0 dollars per month for your gun. Some percentages to consider are 10% of your income into savings and 10% into a retirement account. I also give 10% to the Church. Each individual must decide on the right percentages for them and their circumstances. The point is that you must save for your retirement and you must have some money saved and set aside for emergencies.

Once you have the budget balanced such that your income exceeds your expenses you know how much of your income you can set aside each month to cover your expenses. Each month you are saving money towards those infrequent bills like House Insurance, Car Insurance, property taxes, etc. When they come due you will have the money without the crises. Keep in mind that every insurance policy has a deductible, which is the amount you pay in the event of a claim. Figure this in your monthly budget and set money aside each month. Once you reach the deductible in this category stop allocating additional dollars. You can now use them elsewhere. A computer is a great help in doing this as you can set up a simple spread sheet in Excel to track all this. You can set this system up in a normal savings account but you will get a better rate of interest using a money market account. Be aware that Money Market accounts give higher rates of interest because they limit the number of withdraws or transfers you can make per month. Simply keep the majority of the money in the Money Market Account and keep a “working†balance in your checking. When you write your bills at the end of the month simply make a transfer to your checking to cover the amount but keep track of the amounts from the different categories. This helps you stay on track. The bank will only track the total in the account. It is up to you to keep track of what “categories†it comes from.

After a couple years you will find that your Money market account has accumulated quite a tidy little sum. You can take a portion of this and place it in a short term CD to accumulate even higher interest. Again the idea is that you should not need the whole amount in say 3 or 6 months. So you could place 25% of the Money Market Funds in say a 3 month CD and another 25% in a 6 month CD. The longer you lock money up the higher the interest rate but the harder it is to get to. If the unforeseen does happen and you need more than you now have in the account you can get a short-term loan. You will have a CD coming due in less then 3 months to pay it off or at least a significant portion. The interest earned can either be rolled back into another CD or you can apportion it out amongst any of the categories along with the normal interest you receive on the account.

The first thing you must do now is work on paying off your credit cards. In the near term you may be required to use a portion of your savings category to do this. Or you could refinance your house if you own your own and have the equity. Once your credit cards are paid off keep them paid off each month. This way you end up with more working capital since you are not paying finance charges. The important thing is to stop paying those high finance charges and keep that money for yourself. Once the cards are kept paid you may find you are able to allocate some money towards your gun. On the other hand you may wish to use this money to plus up some of the areas in your budget you had to economize.

The next goal is to pay off your vehicles as quickly as possible. A simple way to do this is you use your tax return. Most vehicle loans are between 3 and 5 years in length so even if you can’t get them paid off sooner you will begin you see some significant rewards in 5 years assuming you do not upgrade your car at this time. You can also use the money you saved by not paying credit card finance charges. The point is you now have options on where or how to spend this money. Another way to “find†money to pay your car loans off quicker is to lower your automotive insurance by carrying a higher deductible. Premiums are less on a $1000 dollar deductible than a $250 deductible. Just keep setting money aside until you reach the desired higher deductible. At this point you can update your policy and pay lower premiums and use the money you saved for other things like paying the car off early. A $350 monthly payment equates to $4200 over an entire year. So once your car or truck is paid for you will have a significant increase in your net working capital.

Up to this point you may have been living fairly frugally. Perhaps eating out less, going to fewer movies, buying less snack foods or whatever. This money can be used to add a little more freedom to some of those budget categories. At this point you can definitely start to budget in something each month in your gun account and something extra for your wife and kids as well. You may even wish to use the first month’s “savings†to celebrate. Remember this is not how to save the gun money quickly but how to do it without taking away from the family as a whole. At this point tax refunds can now be split amongst these same wish list categories. You can also use a portion of the refund to plus up any category that took a big hit due to something unforeseen. You never need all the money in the money market account at once. The point is you have it when you do need it and the portion you allocate to savings can serve as a temporary emergency buffer. Juts keep track of when you borrow from other categories to cover an expense and make sure you plus it back up. Again a computer is a great help here. Yes, it is a lot of accounting but it does work.

Say you are married and have 2 kids. Your credit cards are paid in full each month and your car is paid off. You have $4200 extra per year now plus what you saved in finance charges. Lets just use the $4200 realized by paying off the car and assume 50% is used to plus up the basic budget, which leaves $2100 a year. If you split this evenly between the whole family, you each will have $525 a year saved towards your wish list items. Or you will at least have another $525 to spend on each of your kids as you wish. Using this split you will have $2625 saved towards your rifle in another 5 years not counting tax refund apportionments. Remember you were already spending money on your kids as part of the base budget, which you now just added another $2100 to. So an additional $525 per year per child is quite a large sum. So you may wish to consider a different split that might help you save up for the rifle a little quicker. Talk it over with your wife and come to an agreement on how to apportion the funds. For the sake of argument we will assume and equal split.

At this point we have not considered pay raises or annual bonus. And you have your “savings account†category which has been accumulating also. Pay raises can be split up amongst several of the budget categories to include things for the family and your special gun fund. Bonuses (if applicable) were not figured in the base budget, since they are variable, so they can be used for those special items you want to get your family and a portion added to your gun fund. So it would not be inconceivable to have accumulated a little over $3000 towards your gun in the five years after paying off your car. Again this assumed you did not have the money available to set aside even $25 a month while paying off your car. If you could set aside just $25 a month the first 5 years while paying off your new car you would have another $1500. Now you would have $4500 towards your gun without dipping into savings and without getting it at the expense of your kids. This was also without working a second part time job, which can be argued, would take away from your family as well. $4500 would buy a heck of a nice semi-custom or custom depending on what your desires were.

Things add up even quicker if you pay off a second car in the same time period or just after the first. The only other bid ticket item I have not talked about is your house. Those are typically 15 or 20 year mortgages but once paid off would open up another significant portion of available funds. However, many people often refinance or get home loans to fix up their houses. So I will not include it in the figures.

No, this is not a get it quick plan. It takes planning, commitment, and time. Obviously the higher your yearly income the quicker you could reach your goal simply because you may have more available on a monthly basis to set aside. This works by using the “extra†income you reap by paying off your credit cards and your car. If you do not want a custom rifle the same thing can be applied to Guided Hunting Trips.

If everything you did was at the expense of your family, and therefore forbidden, might as well lay down and die.

But it is pretty easy to save for something extravagant without affecting your ability to support your family. Consider giving up these things (if they apply):

cigaretts ($3/day = $1000/year)
beer ($20/week = $1000/year)
spectator sports (6 tickets/year x $75 each, plus parking, gas & hot dog = $600/year)
renting/buying DVDs ($300/year)
golf ($40 x 12x/year = $500/year)
Take lunch to work instead of going out ($5 x 260 days = $1300/year)
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Total: $4,700/year


Then sell off your extra/redundant guns, which will generate a few thousand more. In 2 years you will have a nice custom rifle.

What about buying a new or used custom rifle from a dealer for less than it would cost to build it.

This is my current route. There are many rifles like this available.

You have to keep an eye on places like Hallowells, Chaddicks, Champlins, and many others. Just keep looking there is always something that someone ordered and never shot. Or a Safari Club show gun that was built as an auction gun and never shot, for 1/10th the cost of it at the show and 1/3 the cost of it new.

Buy 300 shares of DuPont below 40. Collect the 3.70% yield while you wait. Sometime in the next few years it will trade at 55 and you can take the dividend and capital appreciation and purchase a nice custom rifle.

If it doesn't work out, please forget where you got the idea.

I don't have a lot of rifles, but am looking right now at which ones I can get rid of without kicking myself later and which to keep for later projects when I hopefully can do a large portion of the overall work. Then I will put any money I can get in my fund to have my one custom rifle done next year hopefully. some of you are right, fewer but nicer. Lord knows I don't shoot all the few that I have now!

It does comfort me knowing they are always there if I WANT to shoot them though

Red

Rather than all that investment stuff that I don't understand, I was just thinking of knocking someone in the head in Idaho on an upcoming deer hunt and walking off with his Wiebe rifle. Requires no investment or cash, just a two by four.

quote:

Rather than all that investment stuff that I don't understand, I was just thinking of knocking someone in the head in Idaho on an upcoming deer hunt and walking off with his Wiebe rifle. Requires no investment or cash, just a two by four.

Exactly why I let you always lead up the mountain Chic...

Jeff

Idaho can be a potentially dangerous hunting destination, and this thread proves it.

I'm always amazed at the piles of hunting junk guys accumulate over the years, but seldom use. A lot of 'em have plenty of money for booze, redneck-type truck modifications, and twenty so-so factory rifles that they seldom hunt with, but they never have enough money for one or two really great custom hunting rifles that they can enjoy for the rest of their career and pass on to the next generation. They just can't see past price or Walmart for some reason when it comes to guns.

I've found that a workable and relatively painless way to pay for a good custom rifle is to sell off firearms that you aren't using and don't particularly care for and make a deposit with the riflemaker of your choice with that money. Then try to get a rough idea as to when your rifle might be complete. With that date in mind, determine the remaining balance, divide that number by the number of months remaining for completion, and pay that amount every month until the balance is satisfied. If you find yourself paid up in advance, so much the better.

AD

quote:

D99: What about buying a new or used custom rifle from a dealer for less than it would cost to build it....There are many rifles like this available....places like Hallowells, Chaddicks, Champlins, and many others. Just keep looking

Good advice. GunsAmerica, GunBroker, AuctionArms, Thad Scott, gun shows, etc.

If fine custom rifles are your passion you might spend some evenings in pursuit of the self skills to make them. A whole lot of hand work is the requirement and the machine work, while not cheap, can be purchased.

Srock sanding fuinishing and checkering requires very little equipment but does require a lot of practice and it's just one way to get a fine custom at significantly less cost.

Guys I whole-heartedly agree. Life is too short to not enjoy it. I do not smoke and typically have less than 1 beer a month on average. So I cannot reap those benefits, although I can budget and save.

Actually my first custom gun was paid for by selling off several guns I was no longer going to use. Used this method to partially finance the second also. Actually I bought nearly all those guns because they were really cheap and I knew I could get more for them. The joys of being in Germany while the Army draws down. I sold a couple rifles that were accurate but I knew they would be ugly safe queens once I got my first true custom rifle. I would be hunting with my custom and would no longer need them. So out they went. My first custom rifle was actually bought used from a local Pawn shop. I like it but it ultimate reflects the tastes of the guy who first built it. I would have used different bases and added a hinged floor plate. Other than that I like his choices.

Like 500 grains said bringing you lunch as opposed to buying it is a big savings. Plus it is much healthier too.

I just took offence at the insinuation that everyone who owns a custom rifle was doing so at the expense of his or her family. It is by no means the only way. It is certainly not the fastest method. But simply not paying finance charges to the credit card companies saves you thousands over a year too.

Although I think I would tend to keep Chic where I could watch him as well.

I agree with this practical plan to own one or two super custom rifles and have about 30 CF rifles at present, so, I could sell off many of them and get two "Legends", Simillions, Carolina Precisions or whatever and be in tune with the realistic way of dojng things. BUT, I LIKE the rifles I have and most of them are pretty desireable pieces by any reasonable standard, so, I am hooped and just have to struggle along, bearing my cross of gunaholism as I go......

Keep Chic IN FRONT of you!!!!

54JNoll,

I think the advice you gave for saving is sound. Too many families get sucked in by the consumer debt cycle and suffer, even if they are not saving for a custom rifle. Sound management of personal finances gives peace of mind as well as the ability to meet long term and short goals, whether they be trips, rifles, retirement, etc..

Jim

Thanks Jim. Yeah I was in that cycle once myself. Finally pulled my head out of my 4th point of contact (Army Airborne for ones backside). The freedom and flexibility it provides is amazing.

Kutenay ... Don't get me wrong I also own several collectivle rifles and a few non-collectable that have sentimental value. They will not be hunted with no where near as often but neither will they be removed from my bulging safe. I simply sold the ones I bought to sell later or the ones I had no attachment to.

In general ... we all have our hobbies and past times. We all manage to find ways to save up to maintain them. And the ways and methods to do so are many.

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:

...... twenty so-so factory rifles that they seldom hunt with, but they never have enough money for one or two really great custom hunting rifles that they can enjoy for the rest of their career and pass on to the next generation.......

I've found that a workable and relatively painless way to pay for a good custom rifle is to sell off firearms that you aren't using and don't particularly care for and make a deposit with the riflemaker of your choice with that money. Then try to get a rough idea as to when your rifle might be complete. With that date in mind, determine the remaining balance, divide that number by the number of months remaining for completion, and pay that amount every month until the balance is satisfied. If you find yourself paid up in advance, so much the better.

AD

I can relate to this. Over the past several years as I've been learning to smith, I've built up quite a collection of duplicate and or un-needed rifles. Mostly they were learning exercises as I learned a new skill. Now, I'm in the process of parring that down to essentially the bare minimum (qty) I need for my hunting/shooting needs. I'm in the process of replacing quantity with quality. I'd rather have have fewer really good rifles than many ok ones. Besides, the sell off will allow me to buy much needed machinery.