I am looking to buy a metal lathe. and was wondering if anybody has any advice on what type of machine to buy for basic rifle building

Depends on whether you wanna use it for anything else, how much $$$ you wanna spend, and whether you'll own something Chinese...

I have a JET 13" and 40" bed.....It's single phase and two horse.....It's been a very good machine....I like it.

I have rebuilt two dozen South Bend's and they are excellent machines if you stay with the larger ones. Age does not matter as most bushings are common and all parts are readily available. There is also a large support group on Yahoo for them.

I was thinking about $5000 and no I have no other use for it

I'd be looking for something used/rebuilt domestic or European made.

vapodog

I have look at the jet machine and it seems to be a practical solution. Has the accuracy of your machine ever been in question, as far as the travel, and chucks go.

I wish that I had bought a JET. I had a "Who-Flung-Dung" Pacific Rim clone of a JET and it was junk compared to the JET. Penny wise and dollar foulish. Tip Burns uses a JET and likes it a lot. A new one should be had for no more than $5K.

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Originally posted by zdrive:
vapodog

I have look at the jet machine and it seems to be a practical solution. Has the accuracy of your machine ever been in question, as far as the travel, and chucks go.

It's not a Leblond or a Hardinge.....never will be.....but one gets used to it and if one needs a diameter turned to within .001, it'll do it.

It threads nice and faces well.....I really have no complaints with it at all....the best thing is that I've had it for more than ten years now and never had to fix it.....and that's worth a lot.

Again.....it works for me.

All of my woodworking equipmant is also Jet...planer, jointer, band saw, table saw....and while not the very best......it still gets the job done and is quite economical.

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It threads nice and faces well.....I really have no complaints with it at all....the best thing is that I've had it for more than ten years now and never had to fix it.....and that's worth a lot.

Vapo:

Wait 'til you need to replace the secondary drive belt. I did.

JET Lathe

This is not the model I have, but it will do all you'll need and costs less. The headstock is short enough to crown or thread the end of most rifle barrels without pulling them off the receiver. You don't need a collet closer, but a collet chuck is on my "Must Have" list. Consider a DRO, but it isn't absolutely necessary. I'd wager that more gunsmiths use JET lathes than any other make.

yup....that's the one I have......a fine machine......so far

Now let me find some wood to knock on!

When I first got started in barrel work a friend machinist had one for sale. I got to go to his shop and try it out a couple times before I bought it. (Dont laugh) its a Mysore Kirloskar Ltd. made in Hubi India...1974..EM2...15"x40". It has been able to do everything I ask for it to do! Working in thousands is not a problem. The reason I liked it so much is the webbing under the ways is massive, very heavy machine for its size.
This could be a way to go if you wanted a used one and could do some cutting before you buy.
If you was able to save a little on the price of a new one that money could go for more tooling. Good Luck in your search I find this kind of shopping is a hell of a lot more fun than going to the mall with the girls.

I have a 3 phase 1340 Gear Head JET lathe I bought in 94 to replace the 1236 Belt drive JET I bought in 1980. This machine will do everything a gunsmith would ever need and more. It will hold .0005 or better if I do my part. Of course it is built in Taiwan, a Pacific Rim country.

quote:

Originally posted by zdrive:
I am looking to buy a metal lathe. and was wondering if anybody has any advice on what type of machine to buy for basic rifle building

Are you planning on doing any Metric threading?

If not, for the money you are budgeting, you could find a Southbend 13"X40 or a long bed Heavy 10" in great condition. It's a great lathe to learn on. I still have one in my shop and use it often.

I also have a Kent 13x40 which is Taiwan made copy of a Clausing. You could probably find a good used Clausing for $5K.

One thing to consider. It's kind of like buying a used Bridgeport. If you find a used Name Brand in good condition it will hold it's value very well. If you buy a new import, it will never be worth what you pay for it. Most of these names below are much better machines than what's coming from China. The Chinese stuff gets better all the time. Since I bought my new Ti made Kent, I can write off a little every year as a business.

There's so many good machines out there.
Nardini
Webb
Mori Seki
Leblond
Monarch
Logan
Standard Modern
Romi
Takisawa
Enterprise
Cadillac-Good way
Sheldon

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
I have a 3 phase 1340 Gear Head JET lathe I bought in 94 to replace the 1236 Belt drive JET I bought in 1980. This machine will do everything a gunsmith would ever need and more. It will hold .0005 or better if I do my part. Of course it is built in Taiwan, a Pacific Rim country.

Does it look like a Clausing?
Most of the Ti machines are world class.
Jet, Enco, Grizzly and many others have been selling machines from every country that makes them.

Here's some top notch machines.
I can't vouch for condition. If you can find one locally and run it that would help. Paying the shipping on used and not being happy is not worth it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Takisawa-Engine-Lathe-14-x-40-Nice_...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/15-x-50-cc-CLAUSING-COLCHESTER-Triu...ksid=p3286.m20.l1116
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nardini-Mascote-MS1440E-TAPER-ATTAC...ksid=p3286.m20.l1116
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mazak-14-x-40-Gap-Bed-Engine-Lathe_...ksid=p3286.m20.l1116
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mazak-14-x-40-Gap-Bed-Engine-Lathe_...ksid=p3286.m20.l1116
http://cgi.ebay.com/DO-ALL-ROMI-GEARED-HEAD-LATHE-13-x-...ksid=p3286.m20.l1116 http://cgi.ebay.com/Nardini-MS1440E_W0QQitemZ2503162598...ksid=p3286.m20.l1116

I have a 6913 Clausing 14x48. for chambering. I had to equip it with a cathead on either side of the headstock to handle as short as 20" barrels. I know of several smiths that have Rockwell lathes. They are variable speed and make a very good gunsmithing lathe. Remember, if you are using it primarily for chambering, the headstock bearings are most important and not the ways.
Butch

For basic rifle building, I'd make sure you have at least 36" between centers and 1-3/8" spindle through-hole. As Butch mentioned, a short headstock with strong spindle bearings is highly desirable. If you buy used, I'd make sure of available replacement parts before purchasing. I am rebuilding a used Rockwell 11x36 that came with a taper attachment, QCTP, 3- and 4-jaw chucks, tool post grinder and other accessories for $1700. Parts are scarce but the lathe is in excellent condition. It is the bare minimum for general home gunsmithing projects.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/delta%20metal/page2.html

-- Brian

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Originally posted by aleaddict:
Parts are scarce but the lathe is in excellent condition. It is the bare minimum for general home gunsmithing projects.

Didn't someone once say that the Lathe is the only machine tool that can duplicate itself? Brian, I believe I'd be tempted to make it do just that. I'd make it repair itself.

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Didn't someone once say that the Lathe is the only machine tool that can duplicate itself?

I believe that distinction belongs to the vertical knee mill.....I can turn parts in a mill but cannot mill parts in a lathe.

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cannot mill parts in a lathe

Sure ya can..!!! You just need to have a proper lathe...

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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Didn't someone once say that the Lathe is the only machine tool that can duplicate itself?

I believe that distinction belongs to the vertical knee mill.....I can turn parts in a mill but cannot mill parts in a lathe.

Geeze, I guess I'll quit milling on my lathe then. Anyone want to buy a very well used milling attachment?

ZDrive ; Try industrial liquidators Machine shops and industrial Machinery sales .

I'm guessing but bet there is a BUNCH of repo's at the moment or Bankruptcy sales Auctions things

like that . I asked around a machine shop for a milling machine . The people were very helpful

and gave me several publications as all their stuff was HIGH $ CNC stuff and Multi Axis Machine

centers . My pockets weren't that deep , nice machines though !. Well after a month or so I got a call

from one of mill operators told me about a fellow he knew who was packing it in .

Master tool & Die maker for some machine shops who needed proto types . JACKPOT BONANZA

I contacted him we made a DEAL , he spent a week showing me about everything he could mill and had

me hands on day two milling . The nice part about it was his came with 24 years worth of expertise

and TOOLING , many $K's worth of tooling . I later learned he had replaced every bearing an sleeve

with High $ precision bearings . I got a BARGAIN of the decade price wise . The tooling and table

size along with the feed coupled with tooling even gave me hundreds of lb. of NICE steel an Aluminum .

The bare machine is what I paid for less 1/2 what it was new . It pays to LOOK AROUND !.

http://69.43.61.114/FMPro?-db=wi&-format=LatheResults.h...enters&-max=10&-Find

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Originally posted by Westpac:
Geeze, I guess I'll quit milling on my lathe then. Anyone want to buy a very well used milling attachment?

My second lathe, the little cherry 9" SB my dad bought new, has about every attachment known to have been made for it, including some I made from castings like the T-slotted cross slide, except a turret. The milling attachment got a lot of use before I bought a mill. It's cut dovetails for sights, all manner of keyways, slotted holes for adjustable mounts, held things for hole drilling, held things so I could bore a hole in them with the boring head in the headstock. It isn't as good as a mill, not by a long shot, but it sure as little apples is has been very useful. I've had a mill for 15 years and the SB milling attachment still isn't for sale even though I don't use it more than once a year.

Fitch

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Anyone want to buy a very well used milling attachment?

I do, I do! Sell it to me, cheap.

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Originally posted by Toomany Tools:

quote:

Anyone want to buy a very well used milling attachment?

I do, I do! Sell it to me, cheap.

Sorry John, I've decided to keep it in case my milling machine goes down. I will need it to make parts. But you can borrow it.

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Kirloskar Ltd. made in Hubi India...1974..EM2...15"x40".

Gunmaker, or anyone else...
I see you have Enterprise on the list of lathes. Where they an importer of machinery or did they produce there own.
My lathe also has the words Enterprise EM2 in the casting of this machine. I've done several searches and couldnt find anything on them...model wise.
The reason I ask is I lost the manual years ago in a house fire and would like to find another manual.

We had 6 or 8 Enterprise lathes in GSmithing school. Just like this one. Look at the selling price!!!
http://www.govdeals.com/eas/closedItems_sold.cfm?itemID...289&CFTOKEN=51337234
A few were belt drive and the rest were gear driven. That was 17 years ago. I haven't used one since. From what I recall they were tough enough to withstand years of students and accurate enough to do precision work. You might try and contact TSJC and see if they could copy any manuals they have that are similar to your machine.

When I was quitting my day job and moving back to SD I got rid of a single tumbler 13" SBend and was in the market for a "new" lathe. Enterprise is one of the ones I would have been happy to shoehorn into my shop. Since I live in the sticks (or lack there of) the shipping for a 2500# lathe was quite a large chunk of cash. Used lathes are pretty slim pickins around here. Not wanting to order a used lathe that I couldn't run first, I chose to buy a new Kent(Ti import). I like my Kent. It's an accurate and powerful machine that will do metric with the flip of a switch. I still use my 9" SBend for most of my little work.

That is very close to what i have with some diffrences but not a lot. If I had time, space, and felt like going for a long drive...well even for a parts machine...$500. I'll give your sugestion a try on the manual. Thanks!

Steve

I ran a small Enterprise in a Vo-tech school shop that I really liked. I think it was 12" swing. It was a gearhead and would do inch or metric. The only problems I noted were some of the small bolts were not as high quality as they could have been. We had to replace the more often used ones, like the ones used to hold the compound swivel. The instructor told me he thought they were manufactured in India.
James

well I have narrowed it down to either the Baileigh 1340 or the Jet 1340. Both units have the dro but the Baileigh is a heaveir and more expensive machine that seems to at lease on the surface look like a better machine. The only other machine that sparked my interest is a combination machine called a Smithy Granet. Anyone ever use one of these.https://www.smithy.com/product...-web.jpg&w=500&h=437

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I have a JET 13" and 40" bed.....It's single phase and two horse.....It's been a very good machine....I like it.

Vapo, I have a BDB 1340. Which model do you have? I also like mine very much. Jim

quote:

Vapo, I have a BDB 1340. Which model do you have?

The same....

I have cut chambers and cut threads with these lathes:
Jet 1340 made in 1999 ~1000 pounds
Clausing 5914 13x36 made in 1967 ~1000 pounds
Atlas 12x36 made in 1938 ~400 pounds
Grizzly mini lathe 3x10 made in 1999 ~ 50 pounds


The Atlas can build extremely accurate rifles, but much slower than the Jet. The Jet has 10 times the power, but that is not the reason. The problem is stiffness. If the Atlas makes a .010" cut, then do it again without changing the cross feed or compound, and it will take .005" more off. The lightweight machine is springy. Compensating for that springiness takes time and screwing around.


If you do a Google search on "buying a lathe" you will find lots of general information on what wear to look for in a used lathe:
http://www.google.com/search?r...ogle+Search&aq=f&oq=