I am going to send in an application for my FFL soon, (pending county board approval for a conditional use permit), and have a question for those that currently hold licenses.

First, I was wondering what everyone was using for their bound book. I was looking at the Brownells book, but I don't know what else is out there.

Second, since I have an LLC for my gun business, do I need to list my personal guns in my inventory, or can they just sit in the safe undocumented? I guess the atf will explain all that to me, but I'm just wondering.

Additionally, I was wondering what other helpful advice or things I need to be aware of.

Thanks.

We use the ones from Brownells but there are a couple others out there as well, the Brownells books have plenty of room for some of the info required and not so much for others. You can do an Excel spreadsheet and print it and have it bound at Staples in those plastic binders. Or, there are a couple of programs on the market that allows you to do it on the computer.

Your personal guns have to be kept separate from inventory and marked as such. My personal guns are in a separate gun cabinet and I have a card posted on the door that all guns inside are owned by me and not part of inventory. That will all be explained when they do the interview. Although it's not required they really like to see an alarm system as well.

Thanks kend, I was wondering if anyone possibly had a downloadable pdf file? I kind of like the idea of having it done at staples.

I was told by the agent that I was to keep two bound books. One for shop guns and one for listing my personal firearms.

My atf guy told me that my personal guns were to be kept separately, but not entered into any books since they are not part of the sales inventory, unless they are for sale. If you had a store and a home, would you list all your guns kept at home? no. there is no requirement to keep a list or book on your personal guns.

quote:

Originally posted by h2oboy:
I was told by the agent that I was to keep two bound books. One for shop guns and one for listing my personal firearms.

If that were true you'd have to keep a book listing them even if you didn't have a license. He's sounds like a liberal anti gun agent.

I think maybe there may be some confusion here. Let me clarify what she said. Any personal firearms that I keep in my shop are to be entered into a seperate bound book and noted as personal firearms. It has nothing to do with any firearms that I do not keep at my shop.

If you keep them separate and marked as personal you don't have to book'em Dano...

quote:

Originally posted by kend:
If you keep them separate and marked as personal you don't have to book'em Dano...

I have noticed that there are some discrepancies in the information that ATF agents give. In prior shops that I have worked, we did exactly as you said and did not have any issues. However, since she has given me some very helpful advise on more than one issue I figured it was no big deal to do as she suggested.

I think I would get a second ATF opinion on that before I put them in the book, if you put them in the book and decide to move them to another location, or sell them, or surrender the FFL, then you'll have to do a 4473 on every one of them. And multi-sale forms if there are handguns. Your stuff, I'm just relaying what we were told.

One thing is for sure, everybody thinks ATF is a professional agency like the FBI but in my experience they are far from that, double-check every answer you get and write down names, dates, etc. so you can refer to it if you have a problem.

I got my ffl a few months ago, what I was told was to keep a personal firearms record or have them tagged as personal not for sale, othewise they were an unlogged firearm. Know how to fill out the 4473. The agent that did my interview went over non resident alien tranfers about 4 times to make sure I knew what info I had to get from them.

Just tag them NOT FOR SALE and all is good.

The best thing is to keep personal firearms SEPARATE from any for sale, like in a completely different room or building, locked up. If they are located with ones for sale, as stated, they must be tagged as not for sale but do not belong in the "bound book". My guy went over the "non resident alien" thing several times too and I told him not to worry, I wasn't interested in selling anything to anyone who was not a resident.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
...I wasn't interested in selling anything to anyone who was not a resident.

There ya go.

Pay attention to the "sales to military" thing too, we were thinking a copy of their military id was good but it's not, you need a copy of their orders that stationed them in that state.

I do keep any personal guns seperate. I also see your point as to recording them in a bound book. It is possible that I was told to simply record them in a seperate book and not a bound book. It was a while ago and there was a lot of info delivered to me that day. This does make more sense not to use a bound book. I try not to have any personal guns in the shop but there are times I do.

You may wish to try The Bookfactory. WWW.BOOKFACKTORY.COM They sell a firarms register called FIREARMS AQUISITION AND DISPOSITION RECORD BOOK. This is aimed at your home market but works great over here in the UK. Hope this is of help.
Chris.

You guys are making the bound book thing too difficult.

Go to staples, buy 3, 3 ring binders. Open excel. Make an excel spread sheet with the necessary information. 3-hole punch and insert into binders. Ta-da, bound book, per ATF requirements.

You may not have 3, I have one for retail, one for gunsmithing, and one for manufacturing.

All personal firearms are tagged with a neon green tag in my shop. Agent knows if it is tagged it won't be in the book. Since I keep all the guns at the shop in one safe, it helps with any confusion.

Do not get to worried about the non-resident alien stuff on the 4473, that is supposed to change this year. Learn it, but do not fret over it.

Do frequent self audits, I found a mistake and was able to let my agent know ahead of time.

Get your agents direct line and call frequently with any question. My agent knows my name, and not in a bad way. They are bureaucrats but they are people doing a job. Every agent I have had has been friendly, helpful, and honest. Honest if they do not know something, understanding in that they ask what I am doing and why and how it pertains to their job and always happy to help.

Take notes at your interview. Ask questions. If you do not understand ask again. BE POLITE it helps.

I also use the Brownells books and keep two, one for A&D and one as a repair log. I do the opposite of most and specifically asked the agent during my interview whether it was acceptable. He said it was and the important thing is that there is some sort of separation between personal guns, and in my case, guns that are in the shop for work. If a gun in my shop has a tag, it is in one of the books. Personal guns are not tagged. I do not do any retail sales and am very picky about doing any transfers.

Something else to consider. I also have an LLC and am the only "member" and signed my license as the owner. The ATF considers the LLC as the licensee and even though I am the LLC, if I decide to buy myself a gun and use the FFL, then I have to log it into the A&D book, fill out a 4473, do a background check on myself, then log it out of the book to myself. I'm still having a hard time figuring that out and I always have to wonder whether I was really truthful when answering the questions on the 4473!

-Eron