When is a rifle worth more than the sum of its parts?

I know this is philosophical. Lately, I've just been veiwing most guns as potential parts...

How do you add value to a rifle? How could I???

It is very difficult to "add" value to a rifle. It has to start from the beginning. If the quality is not there in the construction phase, then anything added is like putting perfume on a pig.
No matter what you do to them (finishes, mounts, sights, etc.), they are still worth less than the original retail price. If the rifle started out under the strictest quality control, then desirable additions increase the value.

Example 1: A Mannlicher-Schoenauer has an engraved receiver ring that should be left unmolested. If it is covered with hand fitted claw mounts, it increases in value. If it is drilled and tapped for a Redfield or Leupold mount, then it decreases in value.

Example 2: Engraving a current Winchester or any Remington will not increase the value even close to the actual cost. Engraving a properly constructed mauser will usually increase the value over the actual cost.

Just for the record, the rifle Alvin York used for his incredible feat of marksmanship against the Germans was the ill-reputed Eddystone P-17.

So I guess it can't be all bad!

Mark---

I take the cynical view--- How many more enemy could Sgt. York have shot with a better rifle?

Debee, I took a little different view of your post. When you start talking about adding value I think you have to be building something special. I had a very nice utilitarian custom built last year which I'm really happy with, however I'm under no illusion that it's worth more than 1/2 what I paid. Two reasons, it's utilitarian, and it's not built by one of the name gunsmiths. I'd love to have something by J. Belk or one of the other excellent 'smiths working today ( many contribute to this site) but simply can't afford their work.

They add value with artistry and precision. They also have name recognition because of the artistry and precision they put into each rifle they build, so they can (rightfully) charge more than the value of the parts. One of the guys has a note on his web site, something like "life's too short to build ugly guns".

I've read about some of the precision rifles selling for $5K and up, stainless or matte finish, black plastic stock etc. I'd rather have mine for the $900 I paid for it to honest.

If I want a special rifle I want a really fine blueing job, excellent wood, precise inletting, handsome checkering and elegant lines. I've got a grade III and a grade IV BAR, both of which I bought used that exhibit these qualities. I also have a Mannlicher stocked Dumoulin that meshes with my desires, heck, even the Model 1891 Argentine sporter I bought last month (built in the 50's) comes really close to being a "fine" rifle.

What was the question again? Anyway, that's the direction I think you need to go to really add value, top quality craftsmanship with a good eye for the artistic side.

Best way to add value to a rifle? Easy, hand it down to your son or daughter for them to do the same to their kids.

Jeff

This seems to be a good place to post this. Maybe it answers the question and maybe it doesn't. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



This was a mismatched, lightly pitted and refinished, but never ruined by improper polishing, 1909 Argentine action with an aftermarket (PME) blank straddle floor plate.



This is the same action after nearly a year of grinding, filing, welding, polishing, making new parts and installing others.

It has (from the rear) a Blackburn trigger and PME safety. The barrel is a Lothar-Walther 7x57 barrel.

SO-- IT goes from $150 action to a $3000 action with the addition of $400 worth of parts. The rest is labor.

Now it goes to be stocked. The ratio of parts ($500 stock blank) to labor is about the same in that stage, too.

All the inprogress pictures with a lot of the descriptions of how it was done is HERE

and

HERE

I believe Browninguy and JBelk have the idea I am trying to express here.

How does one develop the 'artistic eye' necessary to build a fine rifle???

I believe I can spot a good looking rifle- at least one that has lines pleasing to my eyes. Is this skill further developed by just looking and handling other fine rifles??? I lean toward a severely classic styling.

Add quality labor and lots of it? I am on a quest to increase the quality of my work. Any suggestions? I know that's a broad one... (I'm going to order the stones when I get the catalog )

What are the hallmarks of quality on a rifle?

DeeBee----

I'm a freshly elected member of the ACGG Education Committee.....you are my first test subject.

I've been around guns all my life and an avid, incurable, and constant student of firearms since the fall of my eighth year.

I've always tried to figure out *what* it is about one gun that sets it apart from another. Being critically analytical is the best way to develop an "eye" for quality.

The terms I hear most often when considerinng really GOOD work are clean, crisp, sharp, and defined.

For five years I've been fortunate enough to be one of the selected judges of the Firearms Marketing Group (GUNS magazine) Award of Excellence competition at the annual ACGG/FEGA show in Reno. The goal is to identify the one gun (one year a pair) that "has it all". A gun where everything "fits" right. Wood, metal, and engraving all has to come together in one gun that REALLY stands out as being REALLY right.

The job of judging those guns is incredibly tough (and truly fun). It usually boils down to what gun is attractive to the most people. The interesting thing is that usually the three judges (one wood, one metal worker and one engraver) come up with the same relative scores.

When you think about the fact that in order to be on a table at that show any gun you see is at least a 9.0 on the one to ten scale and any gun entered into the competition is likely to be 9.5 or higher, it's clear to see it's a great job to have........I can REALLY inspect a custom rifle......REALLY look at all the little hidden places like the last checkering diamond in the back corner of a pattern to see if it missed being perfect. It's amazing to see how truly perfect a gun can be made.

Len Brownell said that every line on a stock should be a straight line or a true segment of curvature. He also said that whatever was done should look as if it was done on purpose.

Try to draw a "French Curve" freehand and compare it to a real French Curve....there's the difference.

Look at the surface of a Colt Python (buffed) and a Black Box S&W Magnum (hand polished) to see the difference.

LOOK at every gun you can and try to determine *why* one looks better than another.

The American Custom Gunmakers Guild (www.acgg.com) has several educational videos and publications on custom work with LOTS of pretty pictures. The video, "An Introduction to Custom Guns", was done to illustrate what *can* be done by ACGG members. It's worth a look, I think.

By far, the VERY BEST way to learn to see quality is to attend a quality show. Reno is the place. The ACGG/FEGA show and the SCI show are in town the same week through 2006. If you don't OD on fine firearms in that week it can't be done.

For older firearms, that allows you a historical perspective of what's being done today, I'd strongly recommend the Wally Bienfield/ International Arms Expo in Las Vegas every January. No place else in the country is likely to have a thousand cased, English and Continental "best quality" firearms under one roof. Nowhere can the best of the past and the best of the present be seen in the same room.

It's a life-long quest for education and enlightment. Welcome aboard.

JBelk - those were some great '09 pictures you posted out there!

Regards,
Jeff P