Please tell me the benefits of a quarter sawn stock blank and why it is preferable to other sawn configurations. Is it strength or grain detail enhancing cosmetics?

EZ

Quarter sawing wood warps less. Flat sawing can enhance figure.......................DJ

They Warps ecxactly the same
The quatersawn warps up and down
The flatsawn warps to the side

If the blank is dried correctly over time and sealed properly. I would not believe that moisture ingress would play a big deal in warpage? Am I correct in this assumption?
I am looking at English / Turkish walnut strain; not black walnut.

if you have access of the last 2 or 3 issues of sports afield. steven hughes (our own SDH) have excellent articles covering most all of your questions

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
They Warps ecxactly the same
The quatersawn warps up and down
The flatsawn warps to the side

Not the case......................DJ

Star sawn is the best with no warping.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
If the blank is dried correctly over time and sealed properly. I would not believe that moisture ingress would play a big deal in warpage? Am I correct in this assumption?
I am looking at English / Turkish walnut strain; not black walnut.

Type of walnut really doesn't appear to make any difference so far as I can see. However the growing conditions and blank layout certainly do! Most European walnut is grown in high, dry, cold conditions whereas much black walnut is grown in the relatively easier conditions found in lower and more humid areas. High, dry and cold conditions produce slow growth with strong, thin, tight rings whereas more moderate conditions encourage relatively fast growth with wider, weaker and more-porous grain structure.

Also IMO it pays to let the blank sit & normalize a while after profiling or semi-inletting or however you first reduce the outside dimensions before final shaping & inletting. Any piece of wood, especially a highly-figured one, will have internal stresses that may be partially relieved by the outside reduction; similarly, the rough initial inletting can also considerably relieve stresses and so should be done early on in the process with, IMO, a normalizing period before final working.

Most professionals of my acquaintance usually don't wait.

Please be advised that a too-warm or too-dry drying cabinet will cause considerable dimensional change. Also any root burl or pin knot or similar can later warp due to moisture changes, even after the stock is completely finished.

Also please compare your local average humidity and wood moisture content to the averages where the gunsmithing writers live(d), and also to the averages where the blank was cured. For instance my area is NOTABLY more humid than most, with a moisture content closer to 12-14% than the usually-published 7-8%. Takes a LOT longer to normalize an import from the drier West than if I lived in, say, central Ohio. Also takes a LOT longer for stock finish to dry, up to 3 weeks between coats when the same finish would be bone dry in one day in Arizona.
Regards, Joe

There are two rules when dealing with wood. Rule # 1 is that wood will move. Rule #2 is that there is precious little that can be done about Rule #1.

About the only thing that I know of that will minimize wood movement is time. The more time it has to stabilize, the less likely it is to move. Twenty years is about right to have a warm fuzzy that it won't move--much!

Tom

Here is one big advantage to using a pantograph. You can machine the blank a 1/4" oversize on the OD of the pattern stock and 1/4" undersize on the inletting, pull it out of the machine and hang it up for a week or two. I have usually found if the blank is going to move it will do it inside of 24 hours and then quit for good. I have seen 15 -20 year old blanks move 1/8th of an inch. The most movement I ever saw was with a pair of shotgun blanks I bought from Don Allen. These both moved laterally almost a 1/4" in the wrist area. A great tool, like a chisel and a rasp only operating at higher rpm's

Thanks gentlemen! I know a little more today than yesterday and what to look for. The gentleman that does my stock work has a panagraph for initial shaping. I know they sit quite a while prior to final shaping in a humidity controlled environment.
I just like to pick out the wood. Looks like some flat sawn english. Looking for some nice honey marble cake for a 2 piece stock project (Ruger #1).
I will do a bit of shopping at the DSC.

EZ

You folks need a lesson in Woodolgy .

Green to Dry in an evaporate kiln stabilizes and minimizes wood wondering quickly efficiently

with the least amount of degradation , PERIOD !.

Air Dried is OLD SCHOOL NONSENSE ! As far more lumber has been lost using that method than with modern

kilns , especially evaporate kilns or E backs as trades people refer to them .

Moisture is the reason wood never sleeps and to a minuscule measure creeps .

Properly dried woods ( MOST WOODS not all woods ) have extremely little movement in service ,

Once properly dried . Is your coffee table or house frame walked off lately ?. Didn't think so !.

Provided the wood is sealed against the elements. Lesson #1 quarter sawn is considered the more

stable of the lumber cuts / however over all yields are far less than with flat sawn .

Radial and Tangential Movement is a measurement for wood shrinkage or perhaps better put MOVEMENT .

http://www.tuktupaddles.com/lumber.htm

When you've finished reading the pictures book here ,climb up the ladder to the big boys manuals .

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/produ...g_id=101&header_id=p

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/docum...r/fplgtr113/ch03.pdf

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/produ...g_id=100&header_id=p

I'll be right up front ; I may not know diddly about gunsmithing and acknowledge that fact . I do

know more about wood than anyone your ever likely to encounter . I was a purveyor of exotic hardwoods

on 5 continents for 23 years for then the largest Hardwood importer in the World . PS; I also helped

start several re forestry plantations on 4 of those continents nearly 35 years ago now . Hey I was an

original Greenie and didn't even know it !.

If I was concerned with wood movement when drying a stock blank, or any other wood for that matter, I'd first seal the end grain and then have it kiln dried at a reputable kiln drying business. Moisture escapes and absorbs more rapidly at the endgrains than in the middle of the wood and that will induce stress into the wood causing more problems than method of drying or ambiant humidity differences. I'd hate to see an expensive peice of wood check at the end and become useless because it wasn't sealed. Some leftover latex based paint that you have in the garage will work for sealing the endgrain.

Also, an advantage to kiln dried is it will kill anything undesirable in the wood like bugs or mold.

In the context of furniture Doc's opinion constitutes knowledge. In the context of *fine* firearms it amounts to very strongly stated misinformation.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
You folks need a lesson in Woodolgy .

Green to Dry in an evaporate kiln stabilizes and minimizes wood wondering quickly efficiently

with the least amount of degradation , PERIOD !.

Air Dried is OLD SCHOOL NONSENSE ! As far more lumber has been lost using that method than with modern

kilns , especially evaporate kilns or E backs as trades people refer to them .

Moisture is the reason wood never sleeps and to a minuscule measure creeps .

Properly dried woods ( MOST WOODS not all woods ) have extremely little movement in service ,

Once properly dried . Is your coffee table or house frame walked off lately ?. Didn't think so !.

Provided the wood is sealed against the elements. Lesson #1 quarter sawn is considered the more

stable of the lumber cuts / however over all yields are far less than with flat sawn .

Radial and Tangential Movement is a measurement for wood shrinkage or perhaps better put MOVEMENT .

http://www.tuktupaddles.com/lumber.htm

When you've finished reading the pictures book here ,climb up the ladder to the big boys manuals .

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/produ...g_id=101&header_id=p

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/docum...r/fplgtr113/ch03.pdf

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/produ...g_id=100&header_id=p

I'll be right up front ; I may not know diddly about gunsmithing and acknowledge that fact . I do

know more about wood than anyone your ever likely to encounter . I was a purveyor of exotic hardwoods

on 5 continents for 23 years for then the largest Hardwood importer in the World . PS; I also helped

start several re forestry plantations on 4 of those continents nearly 35 years ago now . Hey I was an

original Greenie and didn't even know it !.

I don't think that most or even any gunstock suppliers kiln dry their wood. They heavily seal the end grain and let them air dry, rotating the every few months or years. (Maybe Kimbers supplier does and that's why thier forends warp so often! )

From Sharon and Paul Dressels site:

" All wood is air-dried to approximately 6 to 9 % moisture content or less. The average mean humidity in this area is approximately 17%. This is way below the national average. We have only 7 1/2 to 9 inches of precipitation per year in this area. There is a lot of controversy as to how dry wood should be. Our feelings are that it needs be no dryer than the area where it is going to be kept. There are those who think it should be aged beyond drying 2-3 years; we'll not argue that point one way or the other. All the blanks we have for sale are a minimum of three years dry."

http://www.dressels.com/id17.htm

Most of the other suppliers I've ever talked to are of similar mind.

Some stockmakers won't think of touching wood that isn't at least 5yrs old.

No matter how old the blank is it needs to spend some time in your climate to adjust to your area's average humidity, and then as Mr. Echols note's let it reacclimate itself after initial shaping.

Don't remember where but in some gunsmithing reference I seem to remember someone commenting on Kiln drying as stressing the wood somehow. I'll see if I can find the reference one of these days.

I don't know much about wood or Stockmaking - but it's fun learning!...................DJ

What DJ said.

Kiln drying is obviously considered fine for furniture and construction purposes but, just as obviously, it's NOT considered fine by most dealers in high-grade gunstock wood. Possibly because kiln drying is considered inconsistent due to the many different results from the many different small kiln operators or possibly for other reasons, but the fact is that all the fine gunstock wood dealers of my acquaintance love to brag about air-drying their wood.

The Dressels' and D'Arcy Echols' caution about allowing wood moisture content to locally-stabilize via air-drying before final shaping is well-founded. I've learned this the hard way from working stocks in dry Trinidad CO and wet Clinton MS among others, there's a heckuva difference in the way the wood behaves.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
Here is one big advantage to using a pantograph. You can machine the blank a 1/4" oversize on the OD of the pattern stock and 1/4" undersize on the inletting, pull it out of the machine and hang it up for a week or two. I have usually found if the blank is going to move it will do it inside of 24 hours and then quit for good. I have seen 15 -20 year old blanks move 1/8th of an inch. The most movement I ever saw was with a pair of shotgun blanks I bought from Don Allen. These both moved laterally almost a 1/4" in the wrist area. A great tool, like a chisel and a rasp only operating at higher rpm's

Agree with Doc224/375 for furniture and similar uses.(I'm an end user in cabinet making and architectural woodwork).And I am well aware of FPL,my brother worked there in grad school.

But the truth is found in the quote.

It's the stress relief that's key.Once all those cool features we love so much in stocks appear,all the dry/wet arguments go out the window.Mineral streaks,fiddle and quilting,I don't care how those are dried and how long they sit,you cut into them and they react in unusual and unpredictable ways.

Not to argue or insult anyone as everyone's entitled to their own opinions right or wrong .

i'm not going to bother showing you : " PROVEN FACTUAL RESEARCH " for over 40 years of data collected

evidence that PROVES what i posted is FACTUAL for ANY WOOD REGARDLESS OF USAGES !.

Ask yourselves one extremely important question does kiln Drying cost Money ?

, how much furniture grade lumber is produced in thicker than 5/4 - 8/4 lots as opposed to the industry

standard of 13/16" mill finish cabinet wood ?. Which comes from either 4/4 or 5/4 depending on species .

ALL Stock blanks WORLD WIDE are minuscule in BDFT terms in comparison to Lumber yields .

KILN SCHEDULES are critical for species thicknesses and desired MC !.[/b]

It still does not contradict what I originally posted !. Believe as you will .

Even after kiln drying it's advisable to allow woods MC to equalize , before putting into

service . Unless that wood will be inside in a controlled environment or Sealed for it's life span .

Stock Blanks require 10/4 or 12/4 thicknesses and would cost those involved additional money !.

He blows hard he does

When did a coffee table have a bolt action inletted skin tight - with the expectation that it would stay that way?

When did it matter if the end of a chair leg warped 1/16" a year after being machined?

When did a Mexican craftsman get upset because his checkering tool plowed into pithy soft kiln dried wood?

quote:

Originally posted by Nomo4me:
In the context of furniture Doc's opinion constitutes knowledge. In the context of *fine* firearms it amounts to very strongly stated misinformation.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
You folks need a lesson in Woodolgy .

Green to Dry in an evaporate kiln stabilizes and minimizes wood wondering quickly efficiently

with the least amount of degradation , PERIOD !.

Air Dried is OLD SCHOOL NONSENSE ! As far more lumber has been lost using that method than with modern

kilns , especially evaporate kilns or E backs as trades people refer to them .

Moisture is the reason wood never sleeps and to a minuscule measure creeps .

Properly dried woods ( MOST WOODS not all woods ) have extremely little movement in service ,

Once properly dried . Is your coffee table or house frame walked off lately ?. Didn't think so !.

Provided the wood is sealed against the elements. Lesson #1 quarter sawn is considered the more

stable of the lumber cuts / however over all yields are far less than with flat sawn .

Radial and Tangential Movement is a measurement for wood shrinkage or perhaps better put MOVEMENT .

http://www.tuktupaddles.com/lumber.htm

When you've finished reading the pictures book here ,climb up the ladder to the big boys manuals .

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/produ...g_id=101&header_id=p

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/docum...r/fplgtr113/ch03.pdf

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/produ...g_id=100&header_id=p

I'll be right up front ; I may not know diddly about gunsmithing and acknowledge that fact . I do

know more about wood than anyone your ever likely to encounter . I was a purveyor of exotic hardwoods

on 5 continents for 23 years for then the largest Hardwood importer in the World . PS; I also helped

start several re forestry plantations on 4 of those continents nearly 35 years ago now . Hey I was an

original Greenie and didn't even know it !.

What can you tell me about the Franquette strain of English walnut. It appears that it only comes from Northern California and is prized for its marble cake appearance.
I think most folks believe this comes from Turkey when in essence it is "predominately" from N California. It is $$$$$ for a nice blank!

EZ

what you guys fail to understand, is that the term, "kiln dried", can have various meanings. the one we're all most framiliar with is the way lumber we see at the lumbermills are done.... tabbooooo, too fast, and all that we have been "educated" to know as not right for our guns.....but.... that's only one form of kilning and the it's the one that is designed to do just one thing... bring wood down in moisture for 2x4's....we don't care about 2x4 so forget about hat type of kiln drying.
kilns are very technical systems now-a-days and can be designed and run to dry expensive lumber as well as any "well-seasoned-umpteen-years-old-piece-of-high-dollar-because-there's only-two-in-exhistance piece of waldo- wood there is. temps and hunidity can be controlled to the 1% for any length of time and constant monoitoring allows these kilns to operate at tthe most ideal condition to dry wood the fastest and with no degradation what so ever. evaporaters remove the moisture as fast as it's released and the atmosphere stays as just the perfect level to maintain complete absortion without "sucking" the moisture out of the wood. the rate is such that the atmosphere is always ready to take some moisture released from the wood and there is no such thing as a humid day slowing the process one day and an arrid day the next pulling on the wood. it is just a perfectly balanced, slow removal in absolutly perfect conditions from green to dry with no interruptions to cause stuctural damage.
don't be suprised if you come to find that the wood you bought and thought or was told was so lovingly seasoned was actually done in one of these kilns.

Hi guys dont get to carried away in all this fine info, about warping, drying, flatsawn, quatersawn, kilndried or airdried

When talking of importance of warping for gunstocks, Please consider where warping matters. Is it the butstock-warping, or the frontstock-warping, that is of relevance.

Plaincut boards is the most common, and delivers both what is like quatersawn, and flatsawn boards.

If we can agree that the most important warping is the warping of the frontstock (rifles), then please tell me how does the pretty square piece of wood used for the frontstock, know if is is quater, or flat.
As i breefly stated earlier, if a frontstock is from a part "called quater" it would warp mostly up and down.
If a frontstock is from a part "called flatsawn" it would warp mostly sidewards. The same goes for the basicaly square pistolgrip. Leaving only the butstock to be realy different in reaction.


A little comment to the guy who stated that gunstock blanks is 10/4 or 12/4. I can tell him that we anualy produce more than 3000 MtCarlostock with cheekpice from 8/4 or 9/4. But on the other hand, we are also only amateurs, and extremely poor, so we have to place the layout correctly within 5/100 of an inch. But given a little practice and rutine it works.

According to Age, Beauty and Strength of wood, a little facts

We have produced some of the most beautifully "turkish" walnutstocks, with lots of burl and mineralstripes, form fairly young trees. Ages counted to 45-75years. Some of the most beautifully showed a werry dence structure, and was extremely heavy. But measuring the growth rings to more than ½", up to 1"pr ring radial.

A lot of the Black American we also use comes from trees aging from 50-100years. And i personaly prefere properly Kilndried wood, as it is mutch more stable, than most "airdried"

Personaly i think that the best walnut has grown in a fairly long summer, with rather limited moisture, and a lot of minerals in the soil.
Our expierince tells that some of the best Black American Walnut comes from the missouri, Kansas area.
Basicaly rather dry and long summer, with lots of sun

Well here is my opinion;

A lot of Franquette was grown in Australia too, it was used over here in orchards that required a late bud break (ie in areas susceptible to late frosts). It seems to be regarded as a self-pollinator.



The Franquette variety trees tend to grow strong here and have good vigour, but are quite susceptible to blight. More modern plantings often use vaireties that are more blight resistant and which bear a greater percentage of fruit on the lateral buds and thus can be grown hedgerow style for more efficient farming and harvesting systems.

Franquette nuts over here traditionally are harvested late, and yields low, on top of that they have a fairly small nut. They do however have a fairly thin shell with a good seal and light kernel colour which is desireable.

As for the wood, I can say that the OLD Franquette trees I have milled over here displayed variable colour and figure, even when grown in rows on the same site with even soils. I personally put this down to genetic variation. The trees I have had tended towards a light honey background colour, which may or may not display "ink lines". Some had fiddleback, others none (same site and shelter). Making generalisations about walnut is difficult to do IMO - so a good tree is just that, and there are plenty if plain ones too.

Judge a blank entirely on it's individual merits, quality of the wood, hardness, pore size, layout,colour/figure, how it was seasoned etc. Where it grew and what variety it came from is really only of interest once you are holding a good blank in your hands.

Your answer for Franquette strain of English walnut

http://books.google.com/books?...ish%20walnut&f=false

Kiln Drying does NOT DEGRADE WOOD , unless someone is inept at kiln scheduling !. Simple one time

lesson is taking forever . Gentlemen the desirable end result is a STABLE DRY PRODUCT . Will or can we

agree on that much ?. Kiln drying simply does it BETTER FASTER and with LESS DEGRADE than old

fashioned air drying techniques . Now I've seen kiln operators screw up equipment go down

years ago . Today with the cost of lumber ? Not hardly chances are better at winning the lotto !.

Kiln Drying small quantity's of thicker lumber isn't in the Budget Card , unless one wants to make

their own evaporation kiln and do it for themselves . Then you had better know what temp % of

humidity an duration is acceptable for stages required to PROPERLY DRY THAT SPECIES !.

Some of you who live around saw mills and kilns drop by and ask them about lumber losses percentage

wise in the Older days of air drying , as opposed to Today's methods . Let me know who tells you


other wise as he'll or she will be looking for employment else where !!!.


As for jørgen I'll agree with that. I used 10/4 and 12/4 as in lumber yields as 9/4 isn't

normally the range of cut . Doesn't a stock blank need to start out about 2.25-2.5" in thickness

once it's planed flat ?. Wouldn't you also say for a Walnut tree to be of lumber or Blank value

it needs to be 60 Plus years old ? An more than likely 80-125 is a denser product more suitable for Blanks .

I agree to an extent with jA_gren on a few points also.

I have lost count of the number of blanks I have handled from Australian grown walnut, that came from a very quick grown tree (3/8" to 1/2" growth ring width). MANY THOUSANDS of them anyway. Yet the wood is often ROCK hard. These blanks TEND to come from areas with fairly long summers, grown in the "good country".

Conversely, in some parts of Australia I have often noticed trees tend to have very short growing seasons with growth rings more like 2mm wide, and the wood is often universally softer! These areas tend to be fairly dry too. But then the genetics are very different also! Bark, leaf shape, nut size/shape etc etc. So I reckon the difference in the amount of wood being laid down is almost certainly influenced by the vigour of the tree - a by-product of both inherited (genetic) factors - and of course growth vigour is also influenced by environmental factors (soil fertility, soil moisture content, temperature and length of growing season and other factors like pests/diseases).

Like I said, hard to make generalisations about walnut.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Not to argue or insult anyone as everyone's entitled to their own opinions right or wrong .

i'm not going to bother showing you : " PROVEN FACTUAL RESEARCH " for over 40 years of data collected

evidence that PROVES what i posted is FACTUAL for ANY WOOD REGARDLESS OF USAGES !.

Ask yourselves one extremely important question does kiln Drying cost Money ?

, how much furniture grade lumber is produced in thicker than 5/4 - 8/4 lots as opposed to the industry

standard of 13/16" mill finish cabinet wood ?. Which comes from either 4/4 or 5/4 depending on species .

ALL Stock blanks WORLD WIDE are minuscule in BDFT terms in comparison to Lumber yields .

KILN SCHEDULES are critical for species thicknesses and desired MC !.[/b]

It still does not contradict what I originally posted !. Believe as you will .

Even after kiln drying it's advisable to allow woods MC to equalize , before putting into

service . Unless that wood will be inside in a controlled environment or Sealed for it's life span .

Stock Blanks require 10/4 or 12/4 thicknesses and would cost those involved additional money !.

Poor kiln schedual aside,that often can case harden or honey comb the inside of lumber....

Do you discount internal stresses found especially in root/stump areas,crotches,and figured wood?

One thing for relative strait grain found in common stocks from larger manufacturing,but I am looking at this from the custom stock end.

Pretty easy to predict there will be a problem with a leaning tree cut for lumber.Easy to spot too when in a board form,even if the kiln work was done well, its going to move alot when cut.Nothing to do with moisture,not one bit.


You know Jerry Metz,by chance?

Dinsdale

My father was told many years ago that we had about 50 black walnut trees along a creek that runs through the forest on my property in E Texas. This gentleman ask my father if he could harvest them and pay him a fee for them. I remember my father discussing with my mom saying he would not do it. She ask why and he said how does that SOB know those trees are there unless he was on our property without permission.
I guess they are still there only 20-30 years older.
I guess I need to figure out what these trees look like and find a few. I may take them out myself and if they have some fine lumber in them, trade for some good English.
We have long hot, dry summers down here. Perhaps we can grow some english walnut down here as well. I suppose my grand kids might reap the rewards???

I believe Tessier blanks were kiln dried and highly regarded. I imagine the process is the key. At the same time if there was a larger amount of loss by "air drying" I'd think the dealers would have changed a long time ago. I don't get too excited about it.

I personally know and recommend Professor Gene Wengert, if any of you would like a second opinion

on anything wood related I post now or for future usage . Please contact

http://www.woodweb.com/gene_wengert/


If or when he finds out who I really am

You'll hear the most thunderous laugh and the first question is Where in the Sam Hill did you find that

man ?. He will more than likely say contact the FPL in WI. and ask who contributed information for

many of the wood manuals still in usage today ,including Tropical Timbers of The World ,Agricultural

handbook 607 .


I supplied much of the field Data for the Late Martin Chudnoff a brilliant man now deceased .

Please try an remember I didn't receive a PhD. I WORKED for it !. I wasn't always in the

composites field .


There are many advantages of vacuum kiln drying wood over other methods. Here are a few: It provides the quickest results – 1 to 3 days. It greatly reduces the likelihood of drying defects such as checking and cracking. Wood can be dried to any moisture content regardless of environmental conditions. Vacuum kiln drying can also save valuable shop space because the shorter turnaround time between acquiring and using the wood means less material in inventory.

I would like for those of you who are interested to please read the following files .In doing so you will have a much better understanding than my ill attempts at conveying the info .

http://ir.library.oregonstate....rated_Drying_ocr.pdf

http://www.woodweb.com/knowled..._Kiln_Schedules.html

Yeah, and plastic stocks are better than wood stocks too. And Kawasakis are better than Harleys. And bumblebees can't fly either.

Bah. I'm about to begin inletting and shaping a stick of Flaig's finest Circassian, one I've had sitting in my shop since 1968. Originally bought 6 and this is the last one (wish Flaig's was still around like the old days!). Profiled it out a while back and have been letting it sit, now I'll cut the mag well, receiver roughout, 1/2" bbl channel and knock off some of the edges, basically turn it into a semi-inlet. Then after another normalizing period I'll do the final inletting & shaping. Don't have a pantograph, don't know of any competent kilns anywhere close, don't want any kiln-dried wood anyhow since I don't hafta have instant gratification. Got some more wood like the above and will treat it the same, sorry if that offends you but that's the way the cow ate the cabbage. You do it your way and I'll do it mine and we'll see whose stocks stay the same the longest.

BTW your insistence upon using various emphasis methods in your posts makes it seem as though you're defensive, that is, protesting a little too stridently. I'd be more inclined to believe what you say if you were to present it in a calmer and more low-key manner. You may very well be right in what you say but the way in which it's presented is important in convincing the undecided (and maybe even the stubborn old geezers, VBG).
Regards, Joe

Well lets clarify two points right now ; #1 I'm not a gunsmith don't tell people I am or pretend to work

my guns . I know wood inside and out. I've cut sawn planed jointed glued screwed steamed twisted dried

ran every conceivable test you could ever imagine on , over 1200 Species documented and cataloged !.

What do I care what you or anyone else uses for gunstocks or how your wood was cured or not ?.

People normally lash out against someone else because they were insulted or embarrassed at being incorrect

!. I never made it personal . I simply stated factual information . What you or anyone else does with it

never concerned me in the least !.

Just let it go guys----Doc is far better to judge than anyone here!

Personal obersvation of 37 years of Gunsmithing, and over 1500 gunstocks made.

Wood is like concrete, it is a porus substance that will absorb mositure, and thus it will expand and contract, due to the humidy and temp of its surrounding area.

Yes, you can seal it as best you can, BUT it will do as it wants to do when it wants to. We can only hope to somewhat control or keep it with in certain reasonable bounds.

That said, my personal stash of gunstock wood, is 4 stacks of black, and bastonge walnut that the youngest blank I cut in 1986, and has been air drying and curing ever since. We would leave them in the large slab for 1 to 2 years, and then resaw into smaller single gunstock blanks.

I rough saw about 1/4" oversize and let sit for another month or so, and like D'arcy, and JD I rough the stock bit by bit and let it sit between operations, a week or so to move around.

The best sealer I found was the old Flecto 66 which was dropped in 2003.

James Wisner

An I respect that opinion .

FYI ; If you have never tried this product you might want to do so . I've had extremely good results using

this for restoration of Chris Craft runabouts . You needed go to an extreme of " Soaking " end grain

simply applying with a brush arrests end checking .

I realize Mahogany and Walnut are different animals but do

share some similarity's . I would also say those slabs are FULLY AIR DRY provided they're in a protected

environment .


http://www.jamestowndistributo...r_att_value0~NewUser