I have a 30" finish length 30 caliber, 3 groove, 11 twist Lilja barrel, it's 1.350" straight taper and I bought for my wifes project bench rifle. We'll after seeing it, there's no way it will hang on the 700 action without a block. I am "possibly" considering having it turned down so it will work without one.

My smith has a giant 40" Jet lathe and he will turn it down without a problem I'm sure if I ask him to.

Question is, how much do you all think is needing to come off this now 10# barrel to give the bedding and action long life?
What should I expect to pay to have it done?
I'm thinking along these lines, keeping it straight to about 6-8-10" and then a straight taper to 1" or could I keep it heavier without problems.

Appreciate your suggestions.

Brent,
Go with the block you will not be disapointed!

Brent--

Your gunsmith has a FORTY inch swing lathe??!! What in the world does he DO with it?

I'd suggest sending the barrel back to Dan and have him re-turn it. Without either a spring loaded center or a pneumatic steady rest, the chances of bending the barrel is about 90%.

[ 01-27-2003, 19:19: Message edited by: JBelk ]

JB,

Not a 40" swing, it can handle a 40" barrel from what I understand. Shipping to Dan would not make it worth it to me, I'd rather put it in a block if that is the only other thing you'd suggest. I'll check into the things you say he'd need. A bent barrel is exactly why I'm asking.

I do know someone who has some truely giant lathes, Gary regularly rough turns down 50 barrels for another smith, Jack, but I doubt he uses the giant ones for them either.

Thanks guys.

[ 01-27-2003, 21:54: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ]

When you turn that barrel, you will either stress relieve it, that's good, or you will warp it and that's bad...50-50 chance either way.

I'd just buy a barrel the size I wanted and put that one back for a future project or go with the block, that's not a biggie...

Finally I get to disagree with Jack Belk. If a barrel bends when it is turned it is because of stress in the barrel not because of the lack of a spring loaded center or pneumatic/hydraulic steady. From the appearance of some triangular barrels I have seen Lilga doesn't use a steady at all (for BR tapers) and occasionally gets a little "bounce".
I do usually reset the tailstock center after each cut to allow for expansion of the barrel, which can easily total up to 1/16 inch.
If you are making a 16.5 lb rifle you should taper the barrel as per the Pa 1000 yd specs. Works good anyway. If your intent is to build a heavy gun then I would go with the blocks or perhaps a sleeve on the barrel. Regards, Bill

I'm also planning a few projects that involve barrel turning (doing it myself). I'd like to hear more info on the best setup procedures, cutting speeds & feeds, tooling, depth of cut etc. When you all mention a steady rest, are you really talking about a follower rest? How would a steady rest be used? How would a follower rest be used on a taper? I assume all this is done between centers. Sorry about the 20 questions. Feel free to direct me to another reference. Thanks - John

Beezlebubba,
There are a whole lot of aspects to barrel turning to address and techniques can vary according to the machines rigidity and whether you are using a copier or offsetting the tailstock etc.
The most important thing is the tool which should be of a modified chipbreaker style with a very sharp edge. It should be set above center by .015-.025. When everything is right it is possible to cut a 24 inch lightweight barrel with no support.
You cannot use a travelling steady on a taper unless you are using a hydraulic steady which will move with the taper. Some people use a fixed steady and turn up to it then move the steady and finish the job. Some use a system with two fixed steadies which touch only on the top and back of the barrel. As the tool passes the first steady, it is adjusted to touch behind the tool.
One barrel maker has a system which features two steady points which pivot to contact the barrel and are weighted with lead. Another uses a travelling steady similar in function and weighted with a can of lead shot which he says dampens the vibration. Seems to work. The advantage to using some type of steady is that it allows vibration free cuts even when the cutter isn't working that well. The more rigid and solidly mounted the lathe is, the better it works.
I used tool steel bits for a long time but am using carbide mostly now. Regards, Bill.

Beelzebubba

Not to be contradicting what has been posted already but to answer some of your questions with some techniques that work for me.

My experience has been that if you are turning down a barrel made by a reputable maker it is usually stress relieved properly and not prone to warpage as much as a bargain basement brand or a factory or military barrel.

I usually run about 220 rpm. Feed at .0043 or faster with a bit ground to a sharp point with lots of rake sort of like a chip breaker. The idea is to remove as much material as possible while not being concerned about finish untill you are nearing finish diameter. Be sure to re adjust the tailstock tension after each pass as the barrel will grow in length. At the same time try to keep it as cool as possible ie coolant or spray mister. Turn between centers. Your depth of cut is determined by your lathe, lack of vibration etc. If you develop chatter, change rpm, mine has varible speed so I can change while turning, very helpful. Sometimes you need to change cutter geometry. If you can't get the chatter to stop, set up your steady rest and work around it, even on taper it will serve to dampen vibrations. It's a big pain but move it around as dictated by your progress. It's not that difficult to build your own pneumatic or spring loaded follower and they work very well but I wouldn't do it for only occassional jobs. Make sure your live center is a well made one and not worn, it can cause terrible vibration and chatter problems. If you dont have a good one you will have to use a dead center for rigidity, pain in the butt.

Barrel turning is time consuming and tedious and to be avoided if possible. It is better to order your barrel as near finished contour as possible, doesnt cost much more.

If you your project requires turning down anyway, get some old take off barrels or old military barrels from your gunsmith and make some practice runs to get your technique, speeds, etc. down before trying the real thing.

Shilen has a monster cnc lathe with huge pneumatic roller bearing followers and a coolant system that pours out coolant like a fire hydrant. I watched them turn down a 1.250 inch blank to a #4 contour in 3 passes. 1rst pass cut 70 percent of the material, 2nd pass shaped the breech area and 3rd pass was the finish cut. It took about 60 seconds and the operator removed the barrel with his bare hands. It took him longer to load the barrel in the lathe than it took to contour it. My business associate who was with me said " D*#Z* ! You just accomplished in 2 minutes what takes us all day long.

Wow! It sounds like a better aproach would be to buy the right contour if you can, much less hastle, if it matters. I appreciate the responses, but now I'm confident my smith will probably scold me for not thinking ahead. I think he'd still take my money and cuss me at the same time. Thanks again guys.

Bill and Craftsman,
Thanks for the advice. I've got two projects in mind before summer. First I'll try to remove the steps from an M-48 Yugo Mauser barrel. If it doesn't work out, its no big deal. After that, I intend to put a .17 HMR Walther barrel on a BSA Martini Cadet action. I'd like to have a straight barrel for the first five inches or so, then a straight taper to about 5/8". My thinking is this should minimize vibration around the chamber when fired and should create a stable platform to easily put a scope base on. Of course it probably won't look too good, so I might find a standard contour I like and go with it. For the mauser, I'll probably try to work around a steady rest. Thanks again - John