Is there such thing as a wooden stock(of a bolt action) that does not affect the gun even when the wood swells/shrinks due to humidity changes(i.e. a stock that is "allowed to warp" without affecting accuracy)? Can some special bedding method preclude effects of wood stock warpage?

Does a stock lengthen more or bulge more on sideways when it is "wet"? How much does typical stock wood change in dimension when humidity changes? If a stock actually warps, how much will it change the point of impact(a few MOA of more than that?)?

Why wood-stocked rifles are not allowed to enter some shooting competetions?

I am curious, I know wood stocks are coated to protect from moisture, but I am still ...curious.

Thanks for ANY answer.

It all depends on the wood itself. being that all wood is different they all seem to react definitely to moisture and it also depends on if the stock was properly sealed to begin with most factory rifles aren't sealed very well especially on the inletting and end grain. As for accuracy that depends also, which direction is the stock going to move when it's wet? how much will it move? how much pressure will it put on the barrel?

IMHO if you think you'll be hunting in a wet area or bad weather use a synthetic stock and be done with it.
And just because the stock moved when it got wet does not mean it will move back when it dries out. you can ruin a stock by getting it wet. And I hunt with a few guys that have more money tied up in there stock than the rest of the gun.

[This message has been edited by Kerry.S (edited 01-08-2002).]

Kerry is right. The change also depends on the specific piece of wood. I have a bolt action rifle whose foreend bends left and right by about one fourth of an inch with humidity. I was forced to relieve the stock quite a bit to keep the barrel clear of the stock.
Sealing the stock with Acra-Glass slowed and lessened this swing by 50 or more percent. Putting a 3/4 inch collumn of bedding compound between the action and floor-plate along with bedding the action created a VERY stable shooting rifle. It's been 10 or more years since the zero has had to be changed.

A synthetic stock is the easy answer.

With some work most wood stocks can be made to work. Good pillar-type bedding, seal the inside of the stock with Acra-Glass and finish the stock with several coats of polyurethane (including under the butt-pad and all screw holes plus free-float the barrel.

Hope this helps. Good shooting.
Bill C.

Besides being a gun nut I'm also a woodworker. Agree with the conclusions expressed that movement of wood depends on the stresses in the individual piece.

I've had two instances of severe and continuous movement of a stock, and affecting accuracy. Both were factory stocks, one a Winchester and the other a Parker-Hale. The latter contained both heartwood and sapwood and I was told there was nothing that could be done to ever stabilize it except replacement. I didn't agree. I stripped it completely with a commercial stripper and put in in my hot attic in the summer time where the temps were as high as 160 degrees. After 2 months of drying I soaked the stock in a mixture of 50-50 Naptha and spar varnish. What it absorbed was unbelievable, about half of the mixture of a half gallon. It was carefully wiped and put back into the attic to dry some more. Another week and another treatment which absorbed very little. I refinished the stock with polymerized tung oil and bedded the action. It's been 10 years now and the rifle shoots in the 4's consistently. The M70 stock was done in 1959 slightly differently and it too is still a supremely accurate and consistent rifle. In that case I used the same mixture as on the Parker-Hale without stripping the finish. It was put into the barrel channel and action area of the stock, plus the end grain of the butt. Factory stocks have typically been unsealed in these areas and in the checkering, and when they absorb moisture from the air, some will move. You CAN stabilize wood stocks.

Wood cells expand much more sideways than length ways. For instance the 8 inch logs I used for my house will expand and contract over a range of about 3/16 inch in diameter but a 12 foot log will change very little in length. The same is true of gunstocks. When stock has a tendency to warp it is usually because of a crossgrain situation on one side of the stock so that the one side will tend to legthen as it takes on moisture.
When wood is stabilized the moisture is driven out of the cells and replaced with another substance as described by Bob338.
One thing that can be done witha problem piece of wood is to simply remove some of the wood. So a forend can be hollowed out, leaving a bridge, so that there is less variation in moisture content throughout the piece of wood.
Laminated wood tends to not warp but it does swell and shrink so that an attempt to stabilize these stocks can be beneficial as well.
I don't know of any competitions where wood is disallowed but know that synthetics are preferred in many cases both for weight and to minimize or eliminate the changes that can occur with a change in the weather.
Some will note that my explanations of wood's reaction to moisture are somewhat simplistic. That's because I'm kind of a simple guy! Regards, Bill

Read all your replies, thanks gents.

Wood that is properly cured and properly air dried is as stable and light as plastic. Proper gun stock wood such as Turkish Walnut, though expensive is very stable...None of my guns changed POI and they have hunted from Nome to the Sudan over the years....

The problem today is in the curing...factory and a lot of california wood just isn't cured when it purchased..It needs to cure in the gunshop for several years...then turned and cured another 6 months or so, then properly sealed and a proper finish applied..This isn't cheap and its time.. consuming...

A lot of folks these days are buying slab sawn California Cork wood with lots of black color and grain going wild in all directions in a yellow matrix, referred to as clown wood by yours truly, as opposed to a nice piece of quarter sawn with lenthwise thin black streaks running from toe up through the grip area and stright down the forend with a little upward trace, fiddleback is exceptable..Only color sells to the novice gun nut when purchasing a custom gun, has been my experience because its pretty and his knowledge of wood is limited unless he has studied wood for years and thats understandable, I'm the same way about computers...

Wood is King, but you must pay the price, better off with laminate or plastic, in that order, if you can't go first class....thats the best gun advise you will ever get for no charge......and noone is required to agree.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Bob338, What's "naptha", and where does one buy it? Thanks, Grant.

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Like Ray, I only own wood stocks. I hunt with them in the rain and sun. I dry them off at the end of the day. On one hunt in Idaho above the South fork of the Salmon, near the Chamberlain basin 10 years ago, I hunted for 5 days in driving rain and my stock didn't suffer any ill effects. A finish to be water proof has to have a built up finish. The inletting has to be sealed as well. The grain layout has to in line with the axis of the gun. It is no different than expecting your metalwork to be done for optimal results.

I have had one stock move on me in the last 12 years. It was not because of moisture, it was just an extremely slow curing blank and the forearm kept slowly moving to the left. I fixed it by cutting a channel in the forearm and bending it the opposite way and glassing in a piece of redi bolt as rebar. It worked and is now on a young man's Mauser rifle and he is just tickled with it. I have heard of synthetic stocks moving too but it usually happens shortly after they are made and it is rare. But then so is movement in a wood stock. The idea that water is going to ruin a wood stock is so much field fodder, but if you want to buy it, then it just leaves more of the good stuff for me. If you do go looking for some wood, dont mistake the colored streaks in the blank for grain, that is called "water marks", the grain is the direction of the pores and does not have to follow with the streaks, although they often do. The black streaks in English, the dark brown in black and the oranges and dark exotic greenish/browns in Claro are layered and can run very contrary to the grain.

My wood selection tends to run to California English rather than Turkish and I find it just as good. I have had one piece of Circassian and it was very dense. At present I am working on a blank that was cut proably in 88 and came from Chico CA and it is hard as the hubs from hell. It is more dense and tight grained than anything I have ever worked on. I have had Claro that was dense too, but not as often, and American black walnut is overlooked. It has been the back bone of the early custom rifles in the US in the past. I often find some great pieces of black for very good prices. A nice peice of feathered crotch black can give me chills. Bastogne is one of the best woods we hae available. It is a cross between Claro and English and is a nut producing wood but it is sterile as a tree as it is a hybrid. It is generally more dense than the English, which is also the same as Turkish, Circassian, French, etc.

Jeez, did I get off on a tangent. I love talking wood. Hope you arent bored.

Am going to attach a pic or two of that chunk of wood. It is not finished or even close yet, but I did put a scope on it and haul it to the range last Saturday. The piece of masking tape was holding on the Neidner butt plate, real class eh?

I just weighed the stock for my BRNO 21 and it tips the scales at 2.5 lbs. I have a bit more wood to remove but I doubt if I lose an ounce or two more. Finish will add that back.

Chic

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Customstox/BRNO21b.jpg

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Customstox/BRNO21c(rt).jpg

[This message has been edited by Customstox (edited 01-24-2002).]

There is a product called Minwax Wood Hardener. It is advertized for use as a "rescue agent" for decayed wood. It seems to be a tough resin in a very low viscosity acetone solution. I do not know if it is compatible with oil finishes, but it is with the urethanes that I have tried.

I have had trouble with competition M1 and M1A stocks compressing between the action and the trigger assembly. Soaking about a quart of this stuff into the stock over a month-long period (by submersion) seems to turn the stocks into a chunk of iron. It is necessary to wrap in rags to dry slowly or the resin is carried back to the surface as the stock dries. I have repeated the process upto three times, but I suspect once is sufficient. Do all this in a well-ventilated room or shed.

I should try to get a nice finish on one of these - something that never seemed necessary in competition.

This might be worth trying on a "working" stock, but I would not do it to any extra fancy custom jobs do to the unkown impact on future finishes.

Don

Oldmodel70~
Naptha has a few names. It can always be purchased in a paint store. Larger hardware stores will have it in the paint department. Also called Benzene or white gas. Same as Coleman Fuel and lighter fuel. It's volatile and evaporates quickly without stain. Helps to get the silica of the varnish into the pores of the wood.

Chic,
I found your post very interresting and informing but I could talk wood for days on end...I have a beatifull 6x45 Sako L-461 stocked with a dark red full fiddle with lots of contrasting color piece of Claro that Tony Barnes let me have..It was hard as woodpecker lips and took 26 LPI with ease..It is my favorite stock apparantly as I have never sold it but have had many offers. I had several of those nice claro blanks and have never found any that good since, but tony had them for 30 years in his basement...

I once had a black walnut blank that was so hard that a scraper left a piece of polished wood behind on a cut..It sold for high dollar and looked like best grade turkish before I could build a stock out of it..

Today I use Turkish, California English and some Australian stuff. All good if dry and properly cured..Again I think to much wood is improperly cured in kilns today and tends to be brittle..but I find enough good stuff to get by...I have a larg stock of two piece turkish that sure is good stuff..I'm down to 2 fantastic rifle blanks for personal use.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Chic,

Nice stock. Good to see good wood without stupid patterns. Give me dark with darker and mainly straight any day!

Chic,
Stock on the Brno 21 looks great. How long is the forend from the receiver and whats the bbl. length? Might as well ask what caliber.
Thanks
Bob