Can a modern but pre-steel shot semi-auto shotgun be “modernized” to shoot steel shot by fitting suitable choke tubes?

Thanks.

I had Briley install tubes on my JP Sauer SXS and Beretta silver hawk SXS specifically to be able to shoot them with steel.
There’s a touch of sacrilege to it, but it works.

Polish the choke out so it is a least modified IC would be better.

Should have no trouble then.

I've seen a couple of A5 barrels (both 12g) that were basically ruined from shooting steel shot. You could see and feel 'ribs' from the harder shot on the outside of the barrel. Both were fixed choke (IC . Mod)

Where was the barrel damage?

Steel shot in shotgun cartridges is fully enclosed in the thick wad cup and does not touch the wall of a shotgun barrel.

Below is from the Browning/Miroku website.

I have a 1984 Miroku O/U shotgun with the original invector chokes and have used steel shot for several years now with no sign of any issues in the barrel. The gun is not marked with the steel proof mark, the Fleur de Lis, but according to below is capable of using steel shot.

One issue that could arise with steel shot cartridges is if they get wet or are stored in moist conditions the shot can rust and clump and then not compress during the passage down the barrel. One manufacturer, I can't recall which one, uses nickel plated shot to prevent rusting if cartridges are stored in less than satisfactory conditions.

Maybe this has occurred with the A5 barrels that were ruined.


All hunting or sporting shotguns (over-and-under or semi-auto guns) by Browning, Winchester and Miroku fitted with the original chokes (Invector, Steel Invector Plus, Stainless steel Invector Plus, Teague, Briley, Midas, Diamond, Signature chokes) can fire "high performance" steel shot cartridges.

Tested at the Liège test bench (high performance 1370 bars) in accordance with European law on the use of steel shot

(1370 bars = 19,870 psi)

quote:

Originally posted by thirdbite:
Where was the barrel damage?

Those A5 barrels were "ribbed" from 4-5" ahead of the chambers to just behind where the fixed choke begins to constrict. The info I pulled off Brownings' web site (concerning A5s) said that the 'older', fixed choke barrel are not suitable for steel, but those factory threaded for Invectors are suitable for steel.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Steel shot in shotgun cartridges is fully enclosed in the thick wad cup and does not touch the wall of a shotgun barrel.

Below is from the Browning/Miroku website.

I have a 1984 Miroku O/U shotgun with the original invector chokes and have used steel shot for several years now with no sign of any issues in the barrel. The gun is not marked with the steel proof mark, the Fleur de Lis, but according to below is capable of using steel shot.

One issue that could arise with steel shot cartridges is if they get wet or are stored in moist conditions the shot can rust and clump and then not compress during the passage down the barrel. One manufacturer, I can't recall which one, uses nickel plated shot to prevent rusting if cartridges are stored in less than satisfactory conditions.

Maybe this has occurred with the A5 barrels that were ruined.


All hunting or sporting shotguns (over-and-under or semi-auto guns) by Browning, Winchester and Miroku fitted with the original chokes (Invector, Steel Invector Plus, Stainless steel Invector Plus, Teague, Briley, Midas, Diamond, Signature chokes) can fire "high performance" steel shot cartridges.

Tested at the Liège test bench (high performance 1370 bars) in accordance with European law on the use of steel shot

(1370 bars = 19,870 psi)

Both of these barrels were of fixed choke, not factory fit with Invector tubes. Both were "quail guns", used in waterfowl refuge areas where steel is required. Evidently, the wads used were not enough to 'protect' these older barrels. The older A5 barrels are thinner, have a thinner wall, than most other auto loading and pump shotgun barrels . I have choke tube tooling (and have used it many, many times) in 12g, 16g, and 20g. I have done countless 'tube' jobs in the past (I have over 30yrs experience). The requests I get are not usually well informed. Older Browning barrels can't be threaded for Invectors and older Remington barrels can't be threaded for Rem Chokes. Each barrel must be measured for wall thickness and bore diameter before deciding if it can be threaded. The newer, factory choke systems, were "re-engineered" to allow for choke tubes and for steel shot. My tooling is all for 'Tru-Chokes', both 'regular' and thin wall, as that system will do the most different manufacture barrels. Who knows about the barrels that were brought to me for tubes, both ruined from steel. Those guys may have been making their own steel loads and not using the proper wad. Lots of ignorance when it comes to shotguns and shotgun barrels by the general public. There's nothing that's indestructible, but some people seem to think they are just because its made by Browning or Remington or whoever. Shotgun barrels inside are measured to the thousandth (.001 , 3 places from the decimal point) , not (.0001") 4 places from the decimal point like a rifle barrel is.

If you have an older A5 you can buy a new Japanese A5 barrel that is usable with steel and has the Invector choke. Fitting the new barrel was not a problem at all.
C.G.B.

It is the fixed choke on shotgun barrels that is the issue where a choke much over IC could see the choke area bulge.
As I mentioned in my first post, steel shot is completely enclosed by the wad petals which are much thicker than wads for lead shot so there is no steel on steel occurring that would cause scoring of the bore. Reloaded ammo may be a different game and information on reloading steel shot warns that the shot must always be below the top of the wad petals.

In some factory loads the combinations of wads, hulls, powder charge and lead shot load can see the shot loaded above or outside the wad petals e.g. 1 1/2oz or 1 5/8oz 70mm lead shot factory loads can have shot outside the wad but the relatively soft lead shot in contact with the bore does no harm.

If components are not matched correctly for steel shot reloading then any barrel, proofed for steel shot or not, can suffer damage.

It is also not a bad idea when using steel shot through insert type chokes of any manufacturer to remove the choke regularly and re-lube the threads with some never-seize grease or similar to ensure the threads are not binding over a period of time with the passage of incompressible steel shot.

quote:

If you have an older A5 you can buy a new Japanese A5 barrel that is usable with steel and has the Invector choke. Fitting the new barrel was not a problem at all.
C.G.B.

Yep. Don't shoot steel shot in the Auto 5's that are Belgium made. Browning will also tell you that. If you want to use steel shot, get a barrel replacement for the shotgun. Otherwise, you will ruin the barrel. I have a stable of Auto 5's-both Belgium made and Miroku made. None of my Belgium shotguns will have steel shot going through them.

Interesting discussion. Thanks.

I have emailed Briley's customer service to ask if their "All Shot" rated choke tubes will do the trick on my gun. It's an Ithaca Mag-10 with a fixed, full choke.

Larger shot is harder on the tubes. Tight chokes get hammered by steel shot. And of course the thinner and weaker the steel, the more likely it is to be damaged. Beyond that, it's impossible to generalize. The only thing you can say for sure is if the barrel and choke was intended for steel shot, especially if so proofed, then it will be OK.

Decades ago, when the use of steel shot became required.

We had a customer up in the Seattle area who was a duck and goose hunter. He was using a Parker SxS in 10 ga, wow what a gun. I had put on a new buttstock on it when he got it as it was cracked thru the grip and had a bad repair.

After a few years of steel shot usage he brought it in and wanted us to hone the grooves out of the bores !!
YIKES it had all these shallow grooves down the bores from the then poor quality wads used in the mid 1970's for the steel shot loads.

I told him to look up Stan Baker as he was the guy to go for at that time who lived in this guys backyard.

Sad to say the customer was killed a few years later, I never did find out what happened to that fine old shotgun.

JW

Have you looked into getting a Remington SP-10 barrel and having it fit to your Mag 10? That way you have a barrel and choke system designed for hard modern shot and won’t have to alter the original barrel.

Not sure if the Rem. barrels fit? Rem. changed some things after they bought the rights from Ithaca.

Worst case, I guess I can just keep using bismuth.

I haven’t heard back from Briley.

Maybe I’ll give them a call.

quote:

Worst case, I guess I can just keep using bismuth.

That's a safe alternative for sure!

I know that an Ithaca mag 10 can “handle” the high intensity steel loads.

The issue I have seen was with very large steel shot, as it scrubbed through the wads, you got scrapes in the barrel.

I dinged up my Dad’s mag 10 this way, even though he modified it for steel shot by lengthening the forcing cone and putting it to IC choke.

This was with T/TT/F sized shot and geese. New factory stuff (circa 2010 anyhow)

It tolerated #1 shot fine, but the big steel it didn’t.

Of course, the Browning Gold and the Remington auto loader had the same issues, although I didn’t notice them until higher round count.

So, IMO, regardless of newness of wad style, you can still damage an older barrel, and the bigger the shot size the easier it happens; similarly the softer the barrel the easier as well.

The only heavily steel used gun I have that has no damage to the bore is a Benelli SBE 12 ga. That had a very limited amount of over BBB sized shot fired through it, with the vast majority of its round count being #2-3 steel- but I’ve switched to bismuth mostly. Steel is for high volume geese for me- stuff I’m grinding to eat. Snows, mainly.