Guy comes into the shop the other day with a new model 70 classic. It had a new barrel and he wanted it shortened and recrowned. No problem. Went and took it out of the stock and lo and behold, someone had bedded it. No problem, except the guy used Bondo! That's right, plain old ordinary auto body Bondo. Maybe I am missing something here but shouldn't it be something more substantial? Bondo? And I know the guy that did it. He touts himself as a pro and even works for the Gander Mountain chain. Talk about backyard gunsmiths. This one takes the cake, or, am I the uninformed one?

Green or Red Bondo?

Don't know why it wouldn't work. I've used Marinetec and JB Weld before, a bit runny, but with good results. I prefer Acraglas gel becuse it stays where I put it.

Jim,
Please excuse my ignorance. What's wrong with bondo? I haven't used it myself but the thought has crossed my mind. You have to admit, to the uneducated bondo does have a price incentive over acraglass. Perhaps you may enlighten me so I may avoid that mistake.

Never thought of bondo.....I still am old fashioned.....I use acraglass gel.....

It's ok as long as he remembered to put release agent on the metal !!!

I guess I must be one of those backyard type of guys. I have used Red bondo, JB Weld and a few other things.
I also use stove black for touch ups on the black evil type guns

Hey Jim...............guess you could always primer and paint it.

Lot better things than Bondo thats for sure, my guess on a light kicker it might work, but it sure shrinks over time and its not very hard.

When I was in my late teens, early 20's........long time ago. I cracked a stock and fixed it with commercial wood glue off the job site where I was working. Took it to a gun smith to get the tigger worked on, I told him about the stock, he told me I was a dumb kid and didnt know what I was doing. He said it needed to be redone............he redid it alright......it wouldn't shoot for crap.....he half ass bedded it with Bondo. I had to grind it out and rebeded it myself with Accraglass.........oh well guess thats how dumb kids get smarter.

quote:

JB Weld

Used on gunstocks? I am guilty as charged, its stronger than bondo though.

At least Bondo sets up. I had a rifle sent to me that wouldn't shoot and so I pulled it down to have a look. The bedding looked flawless from the tip of the forarm to the tang. A first class looking job. The customer had bedded it himself but now wanted me to float the forend and see if I could get it to shoot.

I took one of my channelling tools and took a slice from the forearm. The tool dug in and peeled the bedding back like it was mud. But there was a scent in the air that was oddly familiar but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Mike Bellm came by and I showed it to him and he scratched some of the stuff with his fingernail and we spent the next hour laughing our asses off.

I knew I had smelled that stuff before. Hell I used some just a couple of weeks earlier to re-caulk some windows. I'll tell you, some of the shit that comes throught the door is worth more than the price of the job for it's theraputic and entertainment value.

I'll tell ya a couple of things wrong with Bondo. It is a polyester based material loaded with fillers. That means A) it adhers to wood poorly, and B) it is weak in compression. Other than that I'm quite sure it is mediocre on its best day as a bedding material.

If it is not epoxy based don't use it on a gun. All of the other materials listed in the posts above ARE epoxy based materials...and they work just fine.

I used bondo on a Brown Precision stock once. I ordered it for a Ruger 77R and they sent one for a 77V. I glassed bedded the action and used bondo in the barrel channel. Its been in there for something over 25 years without a problem. So maybe it works sometimes.

Hmm. Can it be that worse than the "hot glue gun" that USRAC is using on the model 70's???

Kinda funny though.

It may work but is a poor choice by a proclaimed "professional" IMO.

Fireball beat me to the hot glue on the mdl 70's............

quote:

poor choice by a proclaimed "professional" IMO

At least it wasn't old bubble gum.

Unless this stuff has radically changed over the years Bondo requires sunlight or an artificial UVA light source in order to cure and harden properly.

Your right bondo isnt very strong far as compression . It absorbs moister and oil also.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Guy comes into the shop the other day with a new model 70 classic. It had a new barrel and he wanted it shortened and recrowned. No problem. Went and took it out of the stock and lo and behold, someone had bedded it. No problem, except the guy used Bondo! That's right, plain old ordinary auto body Bondo. Maybe I am missing something here but shouldn't it be something more substantial? Bondo? And I know the guy that did it. He touts himself as a pro and even works for the Gander Mountain chain. Talk about backyard gunsmiths. This one takes the cake, or, am I the uninformed one?

Bondo is relatively unstable without paint or
something to seal it. This would not be the
choice of a professional! Is his inletting that bad to begin with?

It doesn't take much to make "Bondo" crack and crumble. It would be the last thing I'd use to bed a stock. Can you spell "comeback"?

I have read from autobody pros that if you use bondo to keep it away from moisture until it's been painted and primed because it'll loose it's strength. So if you don't hunt in wet climate, I guess so. Also if you have bondo and epoxy side by side and sand on both you will see which is harder (stronger).

Otherwise used though, I have a P17 30-06 that I couldn't afford a new stock for yet so I epoxyed a small bock of wood to the comb to give it height. Then I rasped it down for the best fit and used bondo to smooth everything to "look right" . When dried and sanded I covered the whole stock in Truck bed liner. Talk about ugly, but hey it sure hold up.

Guys'

I have used Bondo myself but not for a bedding material. It is brittle and chips easily. I used it when building up a pattern stock. It works great for that. I have also used it for filling the barrel channel on a composite stock prior to painting. SHould I tell the guy and have him take the project back and tell the "professional" to redo it?

Jim, I think you know the answer to that question.
If it were my gun, I would want to know and have it done in the proper way.
I have been very lucky in that only one time did I get a screwing on a gunsmithing project and I blame myself for being a cheap bastard and going with a backyard type smith.
It is a real shame these things happen but I think if you research and use the net and forums you will be happy with the results and the smith of your choice.

I have slopped and smeared more Bondo than most people have ever seen. I once used 40 gallons to straighten out somebodies butchered up plug to build a fiberglass mold for an off shore race boat. It is good for what Kobe uses it for. I have used it to fill a barrel channel. I would never bed an action with it. To quote a man I used to work for, that would be like putting "shit between two bricks". As several people have pointed out, it is soft, soaks up moisture and flows and crumbles under pressure. Not the prescription for a good bedding compound.

OTOH the problem with Bondo is not that it is a polyester resin. The problem is the fillers used in it. There are several different types of polyester resins that vary in strength. A good polyester with a good filler such as glass fibers would work just fine for most bedding jobs.

The fiberglass repair bondo would be way better to use. It has a picture of a corvette on the label. Or it used to. I had a restoration body shop so I have tryed about ever thing. There is also some stuff called All Metal. Though I think it absorbs moister if not sealed with primer and paint too

The Fiberglass repair Bondo (or products like it), seemed to be pretty good stuff. Its is a transparent green color, and is water proof. There is also some stuff with fiberglass fibers in it as I recall.
The fiberglass repair bondo is harder to work with when fileing of shapeing than the gray coler bondo with red hardener. Its kinda like a gel like acra glass gel.

I would not use the regular bondo for anything but maybe a stock pattern . Ever see a car with the paint kinda bubbleing up , useually at areas that probably were rusted. Thats regular bondo absorbing moistior.

Bondo also makes a marine grade which is waterproof and a product which is an Epoxy and a product with a fiber in the resin. I use it ofter "On Wood" for pre-paint prep work. Never tried it for bedding but the Marine grade seems to set very hard and smooth and won't crumble like the regular red type 427 I think is the number.

About Bondo
http://www.bondo-online.com/default.asp

I am the voice of experience. There are not many times I can say that on a gunsmithing subject. Jim kobe put together a barreled action for me in .30-338wm. I bought a stock from boyds for the project. In one of my more forward thinking moments I decided that bondo was the way to go for bedding material. A while later I saw jim again for some unremembered reason and mentioned the bondo affair. He told me to remove it and use acraglass cuz it wont hold up to recoil. Well, since I'm one of the smartest jerks on the planet I decided to let it go. Sure enough Jim was correct. It cracked and deformed. It might as well have been silly putty. The best lessons are learned through screwin it up on your own.

I have never done this stuff on my own, but there are some nifty products available in the aerospace industry.
I am looking at 4 gallons (2 part A, 2 part B)of 3M ScotchWeld, about 2 months out of date for aircraft use. It's considered HazMat, so it does not get thrown away, we have to pay for it to be removed and "properly disposed of"

It keeps moving a little closer to the back door, day by day, along with a dandy mold release agent. hmmmmm.....

When this stuff sets up, it's as hard as Chinese arithmatic, and it sticks to EVERYTHING. I suppose it could have a little kevlar fiber added too......

The wheels are turning here.

Just make sure it does not set to hard and can still be trimmed and cut with tools such as a dremel or you are out of luck.

quote:

SHould I tell the guy and have him take the project back and tell the "professional" to redo it?

If you get to thinkin you're a person of some influence, try ordering someone else's dog around

Hi Jim,
Maybe explain to him about the polyester issue and suggest he talk to his "professional". If the "professional" talks him into keeping the bond bedding, the customer will be back in to see you soon enough. You will have all his business from then on, and will not have "bad mouthed" the other "smith".
lawndart

quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd223:
I also use stove black for touch ups on the black evil type guns

Stove black!Give your address I'll send you a sharpie.Try eating some frito's and oiling your guns with your greasy fingers.Frito's also work great for starting fires.

I have used the red bondo on a Brown Precision stock that had a heavier barrel in it at first. I used it for a moutain rifle. Used acra-gel on the action and red bondo to take up the gap in the barrel channel. It still looks good and has held up quite well. It was sealed when the stock got repainted. looks great and was cheaper than Acra-gel. Made the forend heavier than I would have liked but it worked out OK. Bondo has it's applications and IMHO it's not in action bedding.

most good body fillers are made soft so they are easy to shape without a lot of time,not good for compresson[ recoil lugs].there are some heavly renforced ones for fiberglass that might work ok but I would think there are better products out there[ we know there are] my 2 cents.

a buddy of mine bedded his m-1 garand with bondo and looked great, but i told him it would not last 10 shots before it fell apart under recoil. i was wrong it lasted 2

jim - I know this smith - taking it back wouldn't do any good. His idea of a custom gun is to take a 700 remington and put it into a plastic stock, tighten the screws down and call it done

acSteele,

Its probably simular to some stuff I got my hands on yrs, called Chem Weld, it was haz mat stuff. 120 bucks for two little cans, it was hell for stout......we used it to glue pump housings back together after a freeze in the Oil Refinery I used to work at, they are still in service to this day for all I know. I ended up with some, it was no doubt the best bedding compound I've ever used, but an overkill, Accraglass is just fine.

I certainly would not want to use it in the recoil lug recess. I think it would be strong enough in a barrel channel, but not to absorb recoil!

"Bondo" has become a generic term for autobody lightweight dent filler. Almost always a light gray color until mixed with the hardner. Thus, it is a 2 part chemical reaction that makes it harden, not UV light or external heat. Hardner is either red or blue and used in layers to help the tech get the proper surface contour. The 'bondo' company makes many different autobody products. One is Duraglas. Kinda forest green color used with white hardner which is usually methyl ethyl ketone peroxide. It is primarily used as an undercoat for strength, not to level to the final surface contour. It too is brittle and will shatter if struck hard enough. In a pinch I would use Duraglas. Accraglas is just as brittle but easier to use for stock bedding cause it takes longer to harden giving more time to adjust things. They both incorporate glass fibers for strength.

Yes I saw one of those"bondoBedding" jobs years ago.The only good thing was he had come to the right store on his second try.It was red and not quite hard.I had a hard time to stop laughing .He thanked me later and said his rifle worked well now.
I never used Bondo on glass stocks -polyester glazing putty was so much tougher.Too hard for a lot of body shops when it sets up but you could smash trees with this no problem .Barrel chanels -go to a hobby shop and buy microballons [flying model construction].I used Endura epoxy paint .
I really didn't think this happened a lot.
Glenn

The putty was Evercoat polyester glazing putty.Neat stuff! you can thin it slightly with acetone and fill an old Brown stock in one and a half passes with it .
The people who make Robertson stocks use an aircraft compound to bed I think.Accuracy International uses some British compound to glue the actions to the frame.Sounds interesting for glue-ins.
Glenn