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After-market 3 position safety
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Nebraska
one of us
posted
Brownells has an after-market 3-position safety for a Rem 700 and I was wondering if it would be as reliable or more reliable than the factory safety.
 
Posts: 1346 | Location: NE | Registered: 03 March 2002Reply With Quote
<DuaneinND>
posted
The major difference between the aftermarket 3 position and the factory safety is the the factory safety only blocks the trigger- the 3 position blocks the firing pin- much better- the first thing to remember is the only "safety" that is reliable is the operator with common sense and an empty chamber, anything mechanical can and will fail when least expected.

www.duanesguns.com
 
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<JBelk>
posted
Sorry to disagree with a previous poster---

The factory Remington safety in NO way blocks the trigger. It blocks the sear AND the firing pin.

The three position safety blocks the firing pin under all conditions and allows the unloading of the gun in the safe position.

Replace the faulty and inherently dangerous TRIGGER and then install the shroud safety. THEN the rifle will be as safe as other models using the same system.

Email me if you want a description of the trigger fault.
 
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Hot Core
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quote:
Originally posted by JBelk:
Replace the faulty and inherently dangerous TRIGGER and then install the shroud safety. THEN the rifle will be as safe as other models using the same system.
Hey Nebraska, There is a Recall on Remington rifles made prior to 1982 which corrects any real Safety issues. See www.remington.com for details. Rifles made since then have no "inherent design" Trigger or Safety related problems at all.

Just keep the muzzle pointed in a SAFE direction as DuaneinND mentioned and you won't have any problems.

The only way you can have a Trigger related problem, which is true for ALL firearms, is:

1. Having a broken or worn part in the firing mechanism.
2. Having the firing mechanism adjusted improperly.
3. Having filth or trash get into the working portions of the trigger.

There are lots of good aftermarket Safetys and Triggers available for your Remington if you want to spend the money on them, but they just really aren't needed. [Wink]
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
Cold Bore
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quote:
Originally posted by JBelk:
Replace the faulty and inherently dangerous TRIGGER and then install the shroud safety. THEN the rifle will be as safe as other models using the same system.
Aaahhh, another Jack "anti-Remington" Belk post... [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]
 
Posts: 2629 | Registered: 21 May 2002Reply With Quote
wildcat junkie
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quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JBelk:
[qb]Replace the faulty and inherently dangerous TRIGGER and then install the shroud safety. THEN the rifle will be as safe as other models using the same system.
Hey Nebraska, There is a Recall on Remington rifles made prior to 1982 which corrects any real Safety issues. See www.remington.com for details. Rifles made since then have no "inherent design" Trigger or Safety related problems at all.

The "new" remington trigger may not have an "inherent safety" problem, but they are still flawwed in design.

The triggers prior to 1982 required that the safety be in the "off" position. The only way to unload an ADL (blind magazine) was to completely cycle the action. This required that the bolt be closed on every (live) round to extract. I had one of these go off unexpectedly when I was unloading it. I suspect that this was due to some error on my part as I did have the rifle against my considerable girth with my other hand cradling the rifle whill trying to catch the ejecteed live rounds. This had nothing to do with the trigger other than the loose nut on the end of it. In short this was a safety design flaw coupled with poor gun handling on my part.

Now I have a M700 Mountain Rifle DM, and the safety no longer locks the bolt shut. On this action the old safety would not be quite so bad as I can remove the magazine and would only have to open the bolt on a live round and eject it. The new safety is no prize winner as the bolt can inadvertently come open when carrying and ruin an opportunity @ game. This is because the bolt may become partially open resulting in a signifigantly reduced fireing pin strike as the action cams shut on the partially open bolt, or the action may come completely opened, ejecting the live round. I have heard of several examples oif the first scenerio, and I'm sure the later has occurred also.

Either design is flawed, and a 3pos. safety, one that would lock the bolt in one position, allow the cycling of the action while on "safe" on the middle and allowing the action to be fired on the third, would be an upgrade on any M700 action that is used for hunting. A controlled round feed system would be an improvement also but then you would have a "M98" or M70 "Classic".

Don't get me wrong I have one Mountain rifle in 7mm-08, and I just put money down on one in 280 Rem. My 7mm-08 is the most accurate out of the box rifle I have ever owned. On a good day I can shoot .500" (sometimes smaller) groups @ 100yds. with regularity. It will do this with Federal "Premium 140gr Ballistic Tips. My handloads will do almost as good @ an additional 150fps. I hope the 280 will group as well@ another 150fps. as well. Either safety sucks though and perhaps I will check into these 3-pos safeties for the M700.
 
Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
D Humbarger
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& Jack is right too! I don't think it was an anti-Remington post as muchas it was a post years of experience & a machenical understanding of how the Remington safety system functions & its shortcomings. Any Gunsmith worth his salt would tell you the same thing.
 
Posts: 8346 | Location: Jennings Louisiana, Arkansas by way of Alabama by way of South Carloina by way of County Antrim Irland by way of Lanarkshire Scotland. | Registered: 02 November 2001Reply With Quote
Cold Bore
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quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
[QBThe only way to unload an ADL (blind magazine) was to completely cycle the action. This required that the bolt be closed on every (live) round to extract...

In short this was a safety design flaw coupled with poor gun handling on my part...[/QB]
WJ-

You don't need to "completely cycle the action", or close the bolt on every round.

Simply start the bolt forward till the round pops out of the mag. Then retract the bolt, roll the rifle to the right, and dump the round into your hand as it rolls out of the port.

Simple, and 100% safe.
 
Posts: 2629 | Registered: 21 May 2002Reply With Quote
wildcat junkie
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quote:
Originally posted by Cold Bore:
WJ-

You don't need to "completely cycle the action", or close the bolt on every round.

Simply start the bolt forward till the round pops out of the mag. Then retract the bolt, roll the rifle to the right, and dump the round into your hand as it rolls out of the port.

Simple, and 100% safe.[/QB]
By golly Cold Bore you are correct, I never thought of that. [Embarrassed] The fact is, this can happen (the rounds popping out) even when it is not desired, such as during a fit of "buck fever". Come to think of it, I have done this myself (short cycled a M700 action) resulting in a missed opportunity @ (one of) two bucks that I happened on to as they were sparring in my hayfield just up the hill from the house. I had just stepped through a fence row and I was getting ready to unload my 243 ADL. I had just ejected the round in the chamber when I looked up and saw them about 70yds away. They were oblivious to me @ first, but after I "double fed" the action,(jamming it) [Confused] and started to fumble with the rounds "crossed up" in the action they had enough and ran off. (Probably laughing @ me!) Don.t ask me how, but during my fumbling I got two rounds crossed up in the magazine! [Mad]

Another vote for the CRF action! Long live the M98! I had to remove the action when I got to the house in order to get the damn things out. Sure glad it wasn't a "Grizz" that had me in mind for his next meal! [Eek!] I would never hunt dangerous game with a "push feed action. (I will probably never hunt dangerous game anyway, but if I did, it would be with a M98) They (push feeds)can get one into situation that would be next to impossible to get into with a good old M98! [Big Grin]

Lets face it, a 3.pos safety is an improvement (albeit an expensive one) on ANY bolt action that does not already have one.

Nebraska:

Which safety are you refering to? Is it the "Ultra Light Arms" model that is on pg. 98? (catalog # 52) Does anyone know how these funtion?
 
Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
Cold Bore
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Ok, so we go from a question about safeties to hunting grizzly bear.... [Roll Eyes]

If you lack the experience to properly work a rifle action without tripping all over yourself, you're right, you best stick with a M98. Better yet, take up knitting. [Razz]
 
Posts: 2629 | Registered: 21 May 2002Reply With Quote
wildcat junkie
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quote:
Originally posted by Cold Bore:
Ok, so we go from a question about safeties to hunting grizzly bear.... [Roll Eyes]

If you lack the experience to properly work a rifle action without tripping all over yourself, you're right, you best stick with a M98. Better yet, take up knitting. [Razz]
Hey Cold Bore, that's cold! [Mad] If I didn't get excited, I would give up hunting [Big Grin]
Seriously, there are a lot of "clutzier" folks than I out there believe me!

I do love my M700 Mountain Rifle. So much, I just bought another! I just hate the safeties! [Frown]

[ 08-20-2002, 04:38: Message edited by: wildcat junkie ]
 
Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
Hot Core
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quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
1) I had one of these go off unexpectedly when I was unloading it. I suspect that this was due to some error on my part ...This had nothing to do with the trigger other than the loose nut on the end of it. In short this was a safety design flaw coupled with poor gun handling on my part.

2) The new safety is no prize winner as the bolt can inadvertently come open when carrying and ruin an opportunity @ game. This is because the bolt may become partially open ...

3) Either design is flawed.... Either safety sucks though and perhaps I will check into these 3-pos safeties for the M700.[/QB]
1. I completely agree with this portion of what wildcat junkie posted, "This had nothing to do with the trigger other than the loose nut on the end of it. In short this was ... poor gun handling on my part.

2. This is a valid point, but is easily resolved by simply Partial-Full Length Resizing your cases if you load your own. Having the bolt close with a "slight bit of resistance" on the case in the chamber stops the bolt from accidentally opening.

If you are crawling through some serious understory though, it is still best to simply "Un-Load" prior to entering such stuff. Or if you are where big things can bite you, then you really should not have the rifle out of your hands anyhow and therefore, this is a non-issue.

3. This imagined concern of "w-j's" will not be corrected by changing Safety or Triggers. This is again simply understanding how to "work the action properly" as Cold Bore pointed out.

Hey wildcat junkie, I've no intention of arguing with you concerning the Excellent Totally SAFE Remington Trigger Design. If you believe it has some problem, then I certainly encourage you to change yours with whatever gives you confidence in the firearm.

You should be forewarned that believing it will in some way be "SAFER" after the mods, could lead you into having more accidental discharges though. So, be sure to always keep the muzzle pointed in a SAFE direction. And best of luck to you.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
wildcat junkie
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Hot Core:
You are missing the point completely. Although I may not be as infalible as you seem to think of yourself, I have more experience and shoot a lot more than the average "nimrod" out there, and a good portion of these M700 rifles are being sold to people that shoot 5 rounds a year the day before season starts, perhaps not even that. Then they head for the woods "huntin".

The point I was trying to make by poking a little fun at myself and admitting some of the mistakes that I have made is that as a "consumer product". the M700 safety (not the IMO excellent trigger) leaves a lot to be desired. Make no mistake, the M700 is a "consumer product", and if it wasn't for the "consumer" there probably wouldn't be M700 rifles massed produced, or produced at all.

If you are so jaded that you no longer sometimes get excited when a nice buck catches you flat-footed, perhaps you should find some other activity that does.
 
Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
Cold Bore
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WJ-

PM sent....
 
Posts: 2629 | Registered: 21 May 2002Reply With Quote
Hot Core
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Hey WJ, I don't think I can remember ever "agreeing" with someone and it upsetting them before.

So, I guess your second post is correct, maybe I don't understand what you are saying. Oooh gosh, now that agrees with your second post. Looks like you will be REALLY irritated with me. [Big Grin]

I like 3-position Safetys as well as 2-position Safetys. Where I disagree with "anyone" is when they think one type is "SAFER" than the other. The 3-position Safety "gives the illusion" of being Safer, but any mechanical Safety is a misnomer. The best "Safety" is proper handling regardless of whether it is a 2 or 3 position design.

Best of luck to you.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
wildcat junkie
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Hot Core;

Perhaps I should clarify. I do not believe that any one type of "safety" is neccessarily "safer", I just believe that a third position, perhaps simply moving the safty one more "notch" to the rear to lock the bolt closed, would be an improvement. on an already excellent action.

And one more thing: I am not "mad" @ you, but I do speak my mind. Sometimes your posts can seem (perhaps mistakenly on my part) a bit condescending, as can mine at times I'm sure.

Believe me, if I were "mad" at you, I would have been much more explicite.

So, can we "kiss and make up" now? [Roll Eyes]
 
Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
Hot Core
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Hey WJ, I wasn't/aren't mad/upset/hacked-off/etc. at you either.

So, if you see me "agreeing" with you in the future, don't get the impression we are at odds - or you will be WRONG!!! [Wink]

If you get down toward the Carolinas, let me know. Bring some of those fine rifles and we'll go to the range where I'll let you (try to) beat me out of a BBQ Supper. [Big Grin]

Best of luck to you this coming season.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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