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I recently had a Douglas Supreme barrel installed and headspaced on a L57 Sako action. What is the going rate for this work? I'm pretty sure the barrel was short chambered. It should have cost about 325$.Thanks, BTW it took a year to get it done... | ||
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Here is what Douglas charges: http://www.douglasbarrels.net/palma/index.html NRA Endowment Member US Army Veteran CWP Holder Gunsmith | |||
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That is too cheap. ITD I mean. | |||
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I have no clue if this is current pricing or out of date. I have bought 5 or 6 barrels from them that they short chambered to one of my wildcat cases. They wouldn't do a full mount for me since I didn't have a set of gauges. I had no issue with any of them. I know his hourly rate looks low. But what do I know.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Well, I pay rent and do this for a living full time. I'm not a hobbyist, so sit down! By the time a barrel lands here in Canada the retail on a blank is roughly $700 CAD or $540 USD. I charge $650 CAD labor, $500 USD to thread, chamber, cut, crown, polished, inlet into the stock, free floated and ready to shoot. I don't guaranty any accuracy. Only fit finish and dimensions. Plus the retail price of the barrel if I supply it! If you supply all of the parts and reamer or if I can supply them locally, 2 weeks delivery. If I have to bring a barrel, reamer and action out of the states. 2 weeks delivery after I receive all of the parts and reamer. Time to get the parts, all bets are off on that. I won't use Douglas barrels and have blackballed them for the last 30 years because they charge half the rate of what a gunsmith would charge. Many other gunsmiths feel the same. My feeling is they are not a barrel supplier, they are my competition (even though they are in the USA) so I don't support them. I just looked and Gordon Gritters charges $495 USD labor to install a barrel. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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Right. I do not know anything about ITD, but you can't pay for your tooling at $65 for threading and chambering. He must use a treadle lathe. | |||
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A treadle lathe? Nah, likely a water wheel and belt drive. I bet he wears wooden shoes too.... | |||
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Damn, I charge $50 US to dis-assemble, clean, re-assemble, and test fire. Folks look at me like I have three heads and want to sell their daughter into slavery! Yet they will go to a BBQ house on Sunday and pay $12.50 +tax and tip/plate for a family of four and think they got a deal. | |||
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I looked at that ITD price list and it looked like something from the 1960s as far as pricing goes. Things like drill and tap for $20 for the first hole and $5 for each additional hole and barrel jobs for $80 labor are laughable. The Rate for drill and tap when I went to school at The Colorado School of Trades Gunsmithing in 1981 were higher than that. That's 35 fawking years ago. I wish he was in Canada. I would send him all of the cheap skates that walk into my place. LOL When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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A couple of years ago I had ITD Custom rebarrel a Mini MK X into a 6.5 Grendel which shoots 3/8 th inch groups (Douglas XX barrel) and it ran a little over $400.00 with no bluing done. This is my second gun they have done for me. Steve........... NRA Patron Life Member GOA Life Member North American Hunting Club Life Member USAF Veteran | |||
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I must really be cheap. I'll shoot any rifle if supplied with ammo and I don't charge a thing! . | |||
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Dave uses a Nardini MS1440. Honest and fair priced | |||
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Hey guys what difference does it make?? If you have all the work you want at the price you want to charge what is the issue if a website lists a lower price. If my memory works we had a similar discussion about a similar issue a couple of years ago. Heck some people think Shaw is the greatest thing since sliced bread others wouldn't send them business at all. Free market is free market.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Like I said, I have a whole list of people I could send to them. I would be happy to do it too. I have seen people come in and undercut everyone many times before over the years. They work for nothing and waste 10 years of their lives and their wives finally get tired of paying the bills for them and get pissed off and tell them to go out and get a job or get out PERIOD! Shortly after that they disappear and there is nothing left but a swarm of bill collectors and customers looking for guns they will never see again hovering around like a bunch of confuzzled flies.LOL Like the old saying says: "If you are getting something for nothing, it is best to expect NOTHING and then you won't be too disappointed when you get what you paid for!" When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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Given they have been operating for 4 decades I suspect they know operating costs. Being one of Douglas Barrels top customers helps as well. | |||
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I may be reading both web sites incorrectly, wouldn't be the first time, however it would appear that purchasing a Douglas barrel from ITD is cheaper than buying it direct from Douglas. Must be a great break on barrels in quantity. Dave In 100 years who of us will care? An armed society is a polite society! Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you. | |||
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You are reading it correct. While I haven't verified the current prices are correct every time I bought from them in the past the price was better than Douglas Direct. Just checked Midway is listing Shilen barrel less than the Shilen Site. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I guess they make it up in volume. Or, like me they have other interests. Its pretty hard to pay a guy $30 per hour to spend 2 hours on a barrel job and charge the customer $60 and make any money. Possibly they only pay their people $8 and hour. I don't know. But they can do what they want. It's no skin off of my beak. I wish they were in Canada and I could refer so people to them. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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There are always some who want 'the best' for a give away price. They usually pull up to the shop in a new $45-$60,000+ vehicle. I don't need or want them, I've got enough that treat me like a human being. With the overhead and liability involve I'm not about to work for less than the guy that owns the shop where they're having their new, zero turn lawn mower fixed. I should be able to afford health insurance without having to depend on an Obama care subsidy, have a retirement plan, and not have to decide between the electric bill and groceries. If you don't think so, cut your earnings in half, or more, and see how it goes for yourself. If ITD can do the work for 60s prices, good for him. I guarantee he doesn't know anything more than hundreds of others do. If it all looks like it's "so easy a caveman can do it", it really must not be, after seeing what much of it looks like after some ham handed *&%#@% did to it before decided what he did wasn't going to work. I've seen plenty of self induced disasters over the past 25yrs, as has anyone who's been in the business for awhile. Good thing there are Zip-Loc bags. | |||
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Actually, outfits like that are sort of handy silvers. They are a good place to send the cheap skates and the people that you simply DON'T want to deal with for whatever reason. The: "I'm just swamped right now" or the: "I don't have the tooling or parts suppliers to do that, but these guys are probably the best choice" is a lot better than simply telling a guy that you don't want to work for him. I would prefer that even the people that I don't want to work for, leave happy. It's just better for everyone involved, if everyone thinks you actually went out of your way a bit to help them. And even though you couldn't give them exactly what they wanted, they still think you're kind of a nice guy. Even if you happen to be a self admitted asshole like myself !When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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I usually just give an unreasonable lead time or price and they go on their way down the road 70 miles to the next shop where their hourly rate is higher and lead times are longer. | |||
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I read somewhere or heard that Dave @ ITD had ceased operations. At least for the time being. The July ITAR interpretation had him in a tail-spin. Not sure if he's back in operations or if he will be. I do know a few shooters that have had Dave do the work - rebarrel, rechamber, etc. All have been pleased with the work, the cost and turn around. They all seem to shoot as good as or better than the guys behind the trigger. | |||
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I guess 650 wasn't out of line but the year time frame pissed me off because I was told 3-4 months lead time, no phone calls, no e-mail, no contact unless i went there and got the same excuses every time. | |||
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I'm curious if anyone has ever broke one of ITD's barrel jobs down and examined thread fit and visible quality of work. Craftsman | |||
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As I said I have not had him mount a barrel but have purchased 5 or 6 threaded and short chambered barrels. I was VERY pleased. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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He's done 2 Mausers for me, nice work. | |||
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Well, the general laws of business, considering rent, wages, insurance, heat, power, consumables, tooling the whole gambit in USA dollars, require that you pretty much have to take in $300 per day in labor to pay your bills and leave you with $29,000 per year after taxes, for a soul proprietor. That's for someone who basically lives day to day, one minute ahead of his bills and never gets ahead or has a family. If he paid $325 for the barrel and marked it up 1.3 to cover shipping, insurance and his time ordering it, then he would have had $422 into the barrel. That would have left him with $228 for a days work to install it. My guess is he probably put it on the back burners while he was doing higher paying stuff so he could pay the bills. A lot of guys do that. They over book some work that they know they won't make much money on so they are working when times are lean. And some guys are just greedy. They won't turn away a job even though they know they won't make anything and it will probably end up pissing someone off. I've never completely understood the desire to live one step ahead of the bill collectors, but it seems like a lot of people do choose to work like that. I also never understood taking in work that you know you are just spinning your wheels with. And, the day you commit to doing one of those jobs is the day a regular, paying customer will come in and want something done in a timely manor. Then you have that evil jugging match and people get pissed off. Personally, when it gets slow I invest the time into making tooling, repairing and maintaining machines or just cleaning up. There is always something that needs doing. But, booking in non paying work is a slippery slope and once people fall into those work habits, it's pretty hard to crawl back out of it. Some people should not be self employed. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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He's done 2 Mausers for me, nice work.[/QUOTE] Ya' and he's pretty much "out of the business" because of the ITRA "Guidance" , according to a previous post. | |||
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I also have had several Threaded-chambered barrels from IT&D and have been pleased. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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IT&D did couple MKX actions for me back in the mid 80s one 308 and 06 with Douglas air gage barrels both shoot sub 1 moa. I have no complaints. | |||
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On the cheap side, I have used Mark Skaggs for a couple rebarrels for less than $300 including Teflon coating PLUS the cost of the barrel. Great service. Skaggs gunsmithing On the highest quality side, I have used Jim Kobe twice. It was more expensive (I would let him quote his price) which is very reasonable and absolutely the best possible service with a two week turn around time, at that time. It really depends on what someone wants. I am one that fully realizes that I get what I pay for and fully expected that I might not get as good accuracy from one than the other. I have been lucky to get great from both. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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His last up date is 2012 wonder if he still in the business | |||
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Yup. I had him do work early this year. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Probably ought to knock the price back on the pre-inletters, too. $50 to pre-inlet should be about right.. | |||
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Well everything you say is true but I NEVER asked or questioned the price, this was a special rifle I'm building for my Grandson and cost wasn't an issue. I was just pissed he couldn't keep a decent turnaround time, I also wanted him to fit the stock but he couldn't seem to schedule his time to get that done. I think he likes deadlines for the whizzing sound as they go by.. Bill | |||
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