Today I was shooting a brand new, fresh out of the box Sig 226R. It had been cleaned of the sticky stuff and the rails/barrel oiled. Had put about 50 rounds of commercial reloads through it. It acted stiff and there were a few times when the slide did not stay open on the last shot. I decided to run a couple more magazines-full through it.

I put a magazine in with 10 rounds and dropped the slide, chambering a round. I squeezed off a shot and was met with a stiff jolt to my shooting hand, (like getting whacked with a hammer), a loud report and flash. The right side grip was bent out at the top and the slide was partially open.

The blown cartridge case was in the chamber and had to be knocked out with a rod. The right grip was damaged. The extractor was gone and not to be found. The lips of the magazine were damaged. (See photos below)

I suspect that the slide did not close all the way, the rear of the cartridge was partially unsupported, so when it fired the case failed. (Note missing primer).

After replacing the grips I fired the gun a couple times (that is when the extractor was discovered missing).

Anybody else have any theories on this?

what were the reloads? im gussing it is a 9mm?
were they ++P
If you tell them that you were shootin reloads it will kill any warrenty.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:

After replacing the grips I fired the gun a couple times (that is when the extractor was discovered missing).

You definitely have more nerve than I do!

I have seen the same in some commercial reloads fired on our police range. The rounds were overloaded and the case failed where it is unsupported over the feed ramp. Same type damage as the gasses were vented through the magazine well, damaging the magazine and blowing the upper portion of the grips out of position. We no longer use reloads on our range.

Mike

It was a .40 And yes, they were commercial reloads. They are bought in 50,000+ quantities (L.E. Agency with several hundred sworn officers, monthly qualification for all hands). After this episode I was issued a new handgun. No doubt our honchos will be discussing this with the ammo supplier and the Sig rep.

Gee, I thought only Glock's did this!!! Sorry just had too.

It sounds like you have it nailed...new pistol, stiff slide, didn't quite get into battery along with some probably warm loads. I suspect a sampling of the ammo at a ballistics lab would tell the tale. The other problem with commercial reloaders is that you never know how many times the case has been used.

Thank goodness you weren't injured badly. Having a grip blown out could easily take a chunk from your hand...and IMO the pistol should have been retired immediately pending a thorough going over...

Didn't Federal make a early run of 40S&W brass that didn't have enough base/wall junction thickness? The had to change the radius of their draw set to make the junction thicker. It's possiable you got a piece from that early lot #.

This particular handgun (and the incident) got a lot of scrutiny today. The handgun was given a thorough inspection by people (multiple) that know what they are looking at. After a new extractor was installed it was fired a couple hundred rounds without a problem.

Consensus is it could have been any one of the following (or combination)

-load developing excessive pressure

-weak brass as Tailunner mentioned

-slide did not quite come completely into battery.

I think the jolt to the hand eliminates the 'weak brass' and 'out of battery' possibilities. Poor and dangerous reloads !!

Matt, If you didn't have such a daisy-limp wrist with that mean/nasty .40 cal in your hand, you would have been fine.. LOL... (I am only joking because you weren't hurt, and those of us that know you are pretty sure you aren't gay... well... LOL...)
I would guess slightly out of battery on the slide too from the pictures... The grip thing is a little tougher to understand but it could have been displaced by the concussion of the round going KABOOM in the breech... the # of rounds that you fired prior to this and even after would tell me the gun was probably working as advertised...
What side of the chamber was that ripped portion of the case on? The extractor side/top/bottom?
You got lucky my friend... I am glad for it too...
I should set you up with my buddy and his .300 RUM . He is shooting a .300/378 now I believe, which should make an even bigger "impression" on whoever is sitting near him next time...
Pat

Pat, I thought you knew I quit that limp wrist gay stuff long ago...even before you did!

The blown out portion of the casehead was at ~six o'clock (right above the feed ramp) with the dangling down chunk to the left side. For whatever reason the gas pressure was slightly greater to the right, hence the right grip got the bigger whack.

As I play it through in my mind I think the "substantial recoil" I felt was amplified by the right grip smacking me in the web of the hand. I was doing a standard two-handed grip and there wasn't anything out of the ordinary in my left hand nor did the gun torque out of my hand. There was indeed a flash and loud report.

Not quite the WTF moment as you had when your buddy blew chunks of the 300RUM into your noggin', but it was enough excitement for me.

Touche' Mon Frere... LOL...
Well, with the case blowout at the 6 O'clock, which is the most "unsupported" portion of the chamber, I would again probably lean toward the pistol being slightly out of battery when you fire that round as a cause...
I am not a gunsmith, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but that sounds like the culprit to me...
Who does the reloads for OCS?

I would look at the commercial reloads.

Exactly what you describe happened to a fiend of mine. He was reloading for his 45 ACP 1911 and got distracted and ended up double charging the case. He admits to thinking at the time that he should have cleared his machine but dismissed the thought. End result was that while on the range he is shooting. Bang, Bang, BAAANG ... magazine is violently ejected from the pistol onto the floor, all reminaing rounds in the mag are ejected from the mag at the force of the impact, three rounds that were in the mag were destroyed (brass torn up), grips bulged (Black pachmeyer rubber with steel inserts), powder burns on hand, brass fragments in his cheek and chipped his glasses.

The case that was in the chamber at the time looks just like the one you poseted a picture of.

OK his overcharge was more extreme than yours but this is what I suspect occured.

Well Matt,
Hows the new Sig running?
No more blowouts?

Matt:

I had the same thing happen about 10 years ago.
The loaded case jumped out of the mag feed rails whe the slide began to go forward. The bullet went into the corner of the slide/barrel ramp. The slide went forward and the extractor claw hit the primer and it fired the round. Very exciting moment. Blew both grips off the gun. My hand felt like a firecracker had gone off in my hand. Case ruptured just like the one in your pictures.
Longshot

UPDATE: There was another identical incident

This department is currently transitioning from Sig 9's to Sig 40's. We are talking several hundred guns. A couple days after my incident somebody else experienced an identical situation. This resulted in a great big "whoa". The second situation also involved a Federal case. After a lot of examination everybody agrees the culprit is the (early) Federal .40 brass being prone to failure due to a weakness in the head area. Both of the guns have been found to function flawlessly after these incidents (with new grips and extractors). Case failure.

All the ammo has been replaced. No more multiply loaded cases or any Federal cases. We are a very big customer of this ammo supplier and he's been losing sleep over this deal, (as he should).

Interesting Matt,
Federal Cases huh?
Is it possible that the run of ammo that may have received a higher/double charge of powder from the reloader just so happens to be the Federal cased ammo also? Do the reloads come sorted by case manufactuer of are the cartons of a mixed headstamp variety?
Do you have a lot or run number to compare for the ammo that kaboomed in both incidents?
Just thinking out loud here as Federal isn't usually know to make crappy brass... usually...

Are there maybe 2 limp wristers in your department? LOL....

The 40 S&W came out 15 years ago.I've used it for almost that long. The always is a learning curve with a new cartridge. Many companies tried to do a straight conversion from a 9mm pistol .That didn't work.They had to redesign them. Teaching people what happens when the bullet sets back was another problem and factories also tightened the grip of case on bullet.Federal cases were too thin and soft in the head area ,they have been changed.Most kabooms today are caused by poorly loaded ammo. It's a fine cartridge quickly accepted by many especially LE. Effective on the street and with the bugs worked out it's a keeper .I'm keeping mine and today it took one more woodchuck ,my first with Corbon DPX !

I've seen brass blown out like that after being fired in a Glock, if that brass was fired one or more time in one it may have been stressed by the lack of support.
We did have one similar event with our P229's and reloaded ammo.
IMHO the best plan for issuing new weapons is use some of the low cost new manufactured ammo and leave the reloads for after everyone knows their new toy works.

FWIW we had some of the Federal brass that was defective and it completely seperated the head from the body leaving a tube of brass in the chamber.

Any idea who reloaded your ammo?

quote:

FWIW we had some of the Federal brass that was defective and it completely seperated the head from the body leaving a tube of brass in the chamber.

I had that happen with some commercially remanufactured ammo. It was all Rem and Win headstamped too. 2 out of the first 9 I fired did it. I stopped and got my money back! IMO that was from poor loading at the mfg. No unusual feel to the firing either...definately not a kaboom situation either.

One more reason why I only shoot my own reloads...