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Evening Gents, I recently picked up a Forester Sako in .243 Win. I wish to convert it to 7mm-08. I want to keep the same barrel contour, and get a cut rifled barrel while I'm at it. Is there any place to get this done in six months or less? Side note: how are K-P barrels. Thank you!  | ||
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Screw it. no need to keep the .243 barrel. Will just get a .600" muzzle diameter at 24" medium contour, along with the action job. any feedback on KP barrels? | |||
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Those old Sako rifles sure are nice. Have you given any thought to a rebore? If you have enough meat in the barrel that would be a rather quick turn around. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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Thank you Tom Z. There re only two outfits doing Rebores today, and it only truly works on cut rifle barrels. | |||
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Reboring only works on cut rifled barrels? What is the reference for that and why would that be? That is only for Sako barrels, which, strangely enough, uses a steel that does not cut cleanly. And some stainless steel barrels. And some older military and winchester barrels have hard spots in them. Otherwise, you can rebore any barrel. | |||
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If you can keep the barrel stress relieved he whole way, have at it. if there is significant stress left in the metal, i believe the new bore might wander like snake. Besides with Danny Pederson, and wht, one other person reboring barrels. How will more than a dozen people ever know. I'll get on the phone Monday as see who has a .600 muzzle end 8 or 9 twist .284" barrel in stock. So long as it takes the same time, or less, thn the McMillan stock to come, it's all the same. | |||
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Like 'em or not. Shaw will match contour on a new barrel in 12-14 weeks. I've gotten two so far. First was about 11 weeks, the other came in the 13th. Polished n blued, delivered for $256. Am waiting on the 'smith to get it installed now. No more than I'll ever get to shoot them, they'll way out live me. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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Didn't K&P close up several years ago? | |||
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And Douglas will copy any barrel in a lot less than 11 weeks and you get a far better barrel. | |||
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If you call Douglas, ask for Stan Taylor.Stan will take care of you. | |||
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Yes, I have visited Stan many times; he is truly a nice guy and will do anything for you. Stan's father and my father used to work in the coal mines together. But he treats everyone with respect,, and they are well staffed with machines and personnel so the waiting period is short. | |||
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Stan is a friend. We visit by phone about once a week. Talking shop and visiting about some of the internet gun plumbers. | |||
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K&P was in Raton New Mexico, bu moved to rapid city, SD. Tom, I recently shot a Douglas barrel for the first time. pleasant experience. If i can get the receiver trued, bushed, and bolt tightened in a reasonable time frame, i'll give Douglas a call. | |||
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I pointed this out on another thread; Many current barrel producers promote that their tolerances are within .0002, After lapping. Of course, you can lap a barrel into about any tolerance you want. What I consider important is, how precise was the barrel machined Before it was lapped. Douglas does not lap their barrels, they are made well within .0002, and most within .0001, by careful drilling, machining, stress relieving twice, and rifling. No lapping is needed to correct them. And I have been there and done the air gauging myself. Many new guys have forgotten about the first, and what used to be, the major custom barrel maker in the country. Their old web site is the problem I think. Stuck in 1960. | |||
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Don't think K&P is around anymore. | |||
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How does that work? I put a Midway 10/22 stainless barrel on a Ruger 10/22 and inlet it into a Fajen mannlicher stock years ago. I lucked out and did a nice job of it, but have since wished I'd had a nice chrome-moly that I could have rust blued. Would I send them my barrel to duplicate? Would it be a very close duplication? Thanks. Dave | |||
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DPCD: Good to hear about Douglas, Will contact them if I ever need another barrel. That's what I put on the .358U/M. Dave: Just call the guy named above and he'll tell you whether they have the contour on hand or not. I'd bet they would since Sako's are common rifles. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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How does that work with Douglas? Step one; call Stan. That is the only step; he will tell you one of two things; they already make the contour you want, or they will put your old barrel on a tracer lathe and make you a copy. Due to their terrible web site, they do not promote that fact that they already have 100 custom and factory contours in their system with the ability to make them for you on a one barrel basis. And, they also do not promote the fact that they Mag Particle Inspect Every Barrel they make; I didn't even know that until recently. Who else does that? They just don't do a good job at marketing, but they do the best job at making barrels. I have followed barrels through every step, although not the same barrel as the stress relieving, drilling, reaming, stress relieving, mag particle inspecting, turning, etc, takes a long time. More goes into making a barrel than some guys realize. It ain't just drill a hole and rifle it. Just drilling is one inch per minute. | |||
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Interesting. When you look at the barrels winning BR matches, both short range and long range; you see names like Krieger, Broughton, and Bartelin a lot; and then sometimes some from Shilen, Hart, and Benchmark. I don’t remember seeing many Douglas barrels if any at all and it’s been that way for a while. You think that is just poor marketing on Douglas part? | |||
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You might check the LR BR guys. The aforementioned, Stan Taylor, is one of the best LR shooters. | |||
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I am a long range BR guy. I competed in Tucson in 2005-2007. I stopped when I retired from the USAF and took a job back home in Oregon. At that time there was no LR BR close by, but a month ago I learned they had started doing NBRSA within a couple hours of me, so I now have a rig and just found a reasonable load for the match later this month. I just don’t see any Douglas barrels. Maybe it is a West vs East thing. BTW, you haven’t answered my PM on lathes. That said, I think I have decided what I am gong to get. You as all over the Internet in lathe discussions and much of what you said makes a lot of sense. | |||
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 Most bench rest shooters, 95%, are just a bunch of sheeps. Generally if you start looking closely at where all of the plastic and wood is going, it's the same few guys who happen to have the money and the time to go chasing all over the country playing the game. Those are the guys who are usually doing the winning and they make up about 5% of the shooters. Because they compete more often, they obviously have a better chance of winning more often. Even a blind chicken finds a corn or two if it pecks long enough. The biggest factor is that, all of that practice makes them a hell of a lot better at shooting and doping the wind than the guys who simply shoot one or two club or regional matches per year. It's not really the equipment that's making them winners. Sheer repetition and practice has made them better shots. The other 95% of the shooters are the sheeps that I was talking about. Lack of shooting ability and only shooting a couple of matches per year always keeps them out of the trinket winning group. But like guys with penis envy, they seem to feel that they can buy their way into the winners circle. So they look at what ever the winners are doing and they do what he does. If Jim Carmichel lucks out a .1322 group with a Krieger barrel on a day when no one in their right mind should even be shooting, they all run out and buy Krieger barrels. If all the top shooters happen to be using BAT or Stiller actions, the all go BAAAAA and run out and buy BAT or Stiller actions. It's the same with gunsmiths. If Bart Simpson installs barrels for a couple of the top end shooters, then Bart Simpson is the top gunsmith. I've always held, that you could probably force all of the top shooters to use only Remington, factory, varmint rifles in 223 with their choice of custom stock, home rolled ammo and trigger and they would probably still win most of the matches.  But there I go, off on a tangent again. Blame, Lambert !When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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What Speer said, and it is a new vs old thing; when a new barrel comes out, like Bartlein, everyone wants to try it. They shoot great (I have installed 4 of them and they do shoot great but no better than a Douglas air gauged one). So, the word gets out and everyone wants the New thing, and the old ones are left behind. That and the fact that Douglas does not promote their product well at all, is why that relatively small market, gravitates to new products. New young guys want fancy web sites and new things; no need for old ones. | |||
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I just went through a year of PMs and don't have one from you. Try again. | |||
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The first time I competed I shot five screamer groups one year, tied the word score record twice, set two club agg records, shot small group of the match most of the time, and routinely had best agg for the match. I have a whole box full of trophies. In top of that I kept up with what others were using and what they were doing. Further, trying to pick wind conditions like those arrogant Highpower pricks will get you last place in a LR BR match. I saw that repeatedly. Runners almost always beat pickers in LR BR and when you actually shoot that game it’s obvious as to why. My winning rifle used a Stiller Python with a Benchmark barrel in a Shehane Obeche stock and was in 300 WSM shooting 220 SMKs. My current rifle has a BAT action, a Krieger barrel, an Shenane fiberglass stock and is in 6mm Dasher. This new rifle is already showing more promise than my last one. So your idea about being sheep is utter BULLSHIT........ | |||
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So, let me get this right. You went out and started competing and winning tons of shit. And everyone else is using the same equipment and they aren't winning. I take it that these aren't the Barack Obama matches where every liberal wins a prize just for participating? The way I see it, this is probably due to the fact that you are luckier than they are? Or, through natural ability or practice you are simply a better shot? I think, for some reason, you happen to be a better shot. I still contend that if you are going out and consistently winning. You could probably still go out and win, using your competitors equipment. Excluding their ammunition. Reloading is a skill onto it's own. I also still contend that all of the people who aren't winning, are going to be copying what you are using and doing, just because you happen to be winning! None of them will be spending more time at the ranges shooting to get better or going to more matches to improve their odds. Because, THEY ARE ALL SHEEPS ! ! ! ! ! ! When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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Rod, Sorry for my grumpy response. I just realized I am in the middle of a Chronic Fatigue Syndrome flare, and I wind up being in a foul mood for a few days before I realize it. I expect to do as well with my current setup—which is a common setup—as I did with my previous setup—which was less common. Of course, I could get my ass handed to me this time around....... I focus hard on making EVERYTHING right. Bullet prep, brass prep, loading consistency, shooting technique, rest setup, etc. There is no shortcut and everything matters in LR BR. I will happily use barrels from a number of makers, but there is a reason we are seeing more commonality of equipment than we used to. It’s because LR BR is maturing and certain things are known to work well. Selecting known high quality components doesn’t make someone a sheep..... | |||
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In my 35 years I have watched Hart be on top one year and for the following 5 years EVERYONE, used Hart. Then, when one guy started winning with Shilen, EVERYONE shot Shilen and so on and so on. The quality of those barrels hasn't really changed all that much and new practices like stress reliving are quickly soaked up by everyone else in the industry. Equipment simply comes into vogue and everyone uses it for a while until someone starts winning with something else. Custom parts do preform better than off the shelf ones because more time is spent making sure that everything is right and the bad stuff is culled out. But you do reach a point of diminishing returns and then it's simply a matter of vogue and style. I shot benchrest off and on for a lot of years. And I shot 1000 yard back when it was a budding sport for idiots. I had the best of everything. I even had a gun owned by Al Murdock. I believe our own illustrious Billy Leeper was the man who put it together back before I was even a gunsmith. The gun would shoot bug holes. But only if Big Al was shooting it. I made and competed with a lot of other guns later on and I have BUILT, countless guns that have won a lot of shit. But I never actually won a match with my own finger. I'm either the most unlucky benchrest shooter that has ever pulled the pin, or the equipment that I couldn't buy is substandard for the game. I eventually resigned myself to the fact that unless it has fur or feathers, I'm a shitty shot and I quit. If you're winning a lot of matches INTJ, I'm betting that 99% of the winning is coming from you, not your equipment! If it was just equipment, you wouldn't be winning because every second guy is using equipment that is just as good as yours. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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I don't want to stir the pot too much BUT...NO ONE TRIES TO COMPETE WITH LAST YEARS VW when every one else is running a YUGO. BR and LR are testing grounds for BOTH the shooter and the equipment and you DAM** RIGHT we're all sheep WHEN IT COMES TO WANTING THE BEST OF THE BEST...WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT???? This has been going on since way back BEFORE I was competing in the late 50's early to mid 60's in BR and LR...before LR was called LR and was just shooting squirrels WAY THE *** OUT THERE. I also remember all the lying and cheating going on, skulduggery, "sugar in the tank" so to speak and screwing the newby. At least in todays world the 'net stops some of that by getting some kind of information out to anyone who wants to take advantage of it. I don't know anyone that didn't look over every shoulder they could and copied/stole/"borrowed"/acquired the rights to... whatever was wasn't tied down or locked up tighter than a...you know. Being copied is the highest form of flattery there is...it means you have SOMETHING VERY DESIRABLE and a host of jealous followers. I guarantee this business of shooting would be very POOR if it weren't for greed and avarice and WANTING what the winners have AND all the attendant add-ons that keep the money moving....HOW many of you would be out of work without all that WANTING???? Besides without all this economic pushing and shoving WHO would have developed/produced all these wonderful CNC machines that make all those very neat AND ACCURATE parts that keep many of you in fancy barrels, BAT actions and expensive rigs to haul all those toys to all those matches that WOULDN'T be there without being SHEEP. THINK ABOUT IT...DON'T PI** ON IT. Good hunting   | |||
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I think what I was actually getting at when I started this tangent was, if the top shooters were all using Douglass barrels. Douglass would probably be the barrel of choice for everyone. But, if everyone was using the same thing, there would be no innovation because new comers with new ideas would never get tested and proven. So keep buying all of these new and wonderful barrel brands! Maybe some day we will actually figure out what makes one barrel shoot great and the next one off the assembly line, made exactly the same way, with exactly the same components, with exactly the same tooling, by exactly the same people, not shoot worth a shit! PS. Please hurry as I'll probably only live another 10 or 20 years and I want one of those barrels that makes nothing but bug-butt-holes ! LOL When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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