I received an email in answer to one of my questions on another site. To make a long story short, he said Dillon told him never to use a die that begins with an "L" on a Dilon press. Have any of you heard that and know the reason. He did not know why. I know there has been "bad blood" between Mike Dillon and Lee for years. I'm kinda curious as to what was meant by that statement.

Dang, I am glad the progressive reloader police in the black helicopters have not checked my reloading room.

Half of the tool heads for my 550 are loaded with LEE dies with plans for 2 more in the future.

One may have trouble with crimp die in the 550 with Lee's if that is what is being alluded to by Dillon. A little die manipulation and some rubber cement in the threads and ALL is well.

LouisB

Guess I am just too dumb to know they won't work!

The factory crimp die is really the only one I'm interested in due to it's excellent reputation. I'm a novice to reloading. I don't even remember how or why I bought a Dillon. I inherited a lot of stuff from a friend who died. If you read enough of the gun mags who write almost exclusively about a few companies, gunsmiths, or whoever is in league with them, a person can make a lot of mistakes. Some of them push the Dillon a lot. I've found out by surfing many gun sites that very few people use a Dillon, or even a progressive. What is it I have to learn from these people? There must be some reason. I'm sure sorry to hear that the only die I'm interested in is the only die you have "trouble" with. I've never heard anyone say they've had a problem with that die, but then most of them don't use a Dillon.
Thanks for the reply. I aprreciate it.

dzrtram, pard;

This is curious.

"Very few people use a Dillon." Really? Virtually 100% of the IPSC folks, and thousands of others who play the high-round-count shooting games, use Dillon machinery. Surveys performed at their competitions bear this out.

I haven't seen a recent figure for production, but a few years back Dillon had already produced over a HALF-MILLION progressive loaders. Very few, hmm?

My personal 550B has been trouble-free for the 12 years I've owned it, and it sees considerable use in a dozen or so calibers, including several rifle calibers up to .30-06. (It will also handle my .416 Rigby and .50 Sharps' if I so choose, but I just don't NEED that much ammo in those calibers!)

Dillon has a sterling reputation, and you have somehow formed a completely wrong impression, probably just from reading stuff from the wrong people. I called Dillon once with a question, and as a result of the conversation they shipped me a set of updated powder-measure parts....FREE, and unrequested. That's the way they treat customers. I use many different makes of dies in my 550, although not Lees, which I do not like. Some Lee equipment is OK, especially their bullet moulds, which offer some good points. I have a dozen or more Lee moulds on hand, including a few custom bullet designs.

Dillon and Lee actually carried on a nasty war-of-words in their advertising some years ago. It wasn't pleasant to see!

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1)

I would dare say the Dillons are probably the #1 progressives sold. I don't personally own one but from the unique perspective of a rangemaster on a busy range I talk to dozens of shooters on a daily basis and among the people who use progressives, Dillon is far and away #1. I use a Star for all my pistol stuff but if I didn't own a Star I would certainly have a Dillon. I have never heard anyone bad mouth Dillon around here. Jim

I don't shoot enough to justify a Dillion but if I ever buy a progressive it most certainly would be a Dillion. I try to not buy anything not made by RCBS because of their commitment to their customers, but Dillion is just as good. Most of the Lee equipment I've seen was made like the space shuttle, as cheap as possible.. If you shoot any of the high round count sport a progressive loader is nearly mandatory and a Dillion would be the best choice.

Stupid me, I thought you meant Lyman! I use mostly Lee dies and think their great.
As to the Dillon thing, I think very few hunters use Dillon's and that is most of the people on these forums. A LOT of competitive shooter use Dillons with great success. They are a fantastic reloader if you're loading in high volume. If you don't load the same caliber in high volume, then they're not so appealing. I load for 4 or 5 rifle and more often than not 2 or 3 pistol cartridges, so change over would by too big of a hassle for me, so I use a Lee turret press. The dies can be set up on the turrets and left, leaving only a change of turret to change calibers. I like it a lot and it works pretty well, I get regular "less than an inch" groups from my 30/06 and .243, when I do my part, so I can't complain.
By the way, did you read Dick Lee's reloading manual, he relates the fact that he and Mike Dillon are actually friends and that the story was not true of their animosity. It even goes on to say that one of them allowed the other to use his patent. I don't remember the details, but it's in the first addition of the Lee reloading manual. If I misquoted it, I appologize as I'm working from memory, and I am over 40, so I have an excellent excuse.

[ 10-12-2003, 21:50: Message edited by: Bobby ]

Well, it seems some people need to do more careful reading. I said "...I've found out by surfing many gun sites that very few people use a Dillon, or even a progressive". On the sites I've visited very few use the Dillon. I know all about Dillon. I know all about IPSC, etc. I used to read those stupid magazines that push Dillon, Ed Brown, Bill Wilson, and maybe some others, to the max. I have a Dillon. They are the best. From a couple of the posts here you would think I was badmouthing the Dillon. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It is sad that some people get so defensive over somthing they THINK is being said, especially when that person has already stated in previous posts that they are a novice and know very little.
Calm down, guys. I have two Dillons now, a 550 and a Square Deal, but nothing is perfect. The Square Deal is proprietary, and there are some dies better than the Dillon dies for specific jobs, and that's just a plain fact. I prefer Dillon over all the others for several reasons: I don't have to send a buck or two for their catalog, I don't have to pay to talk to a tech, and they are good about replacing defective or broken parts. That can't be said about all of the manufacturers. That being said, there must be some reason those other companies sell thousands of products. I talked to one big site on the web and they said they sell hundreds of Lee dies. That's just one site.
As I've begun to learn, I'm beginning to think that Lyman and Lee are the ones out of line with the industry. I've had some very careful, clear, and thoughtful explanations on other sites, many of whom, by the way, know nothing about Dillons. It seems that Dillon is compatible with everyone but the L dies. That's a darn shame.
Thanks for the input. Just wanted to set my record straight on the Dillon. We have no disagreement.

I think you have probably hit the nail on the head. The IPSC shooters do not need the precise accuracy of a bench rest shooter. Now, before someone goes off on me, I said "precise". IPSC and other competitive shooters load thousands of rounds a weeks, and maybe even in a day, so the Dillon is perfect for them.
I think the reason I found few people using the Dillon, on other sites, is because either they are bench rest shooters, or need/or want precision for other reasons. Another reason is because they can't afford Dillon presses. There must be thousands of people out there still using a single stage press, like a Rockchucker, or something similar. Glad to see there is at least one person who completely understood what I was saying. I feel better now. Thanks for the input!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Bobby:
Stupid me, I thought you meant Lyman! I use mostly Lee dies and think their great.
As to the Dillon thing, I think very few hunters use Dillon's and that is most of the people on these forums. A LOT of competitive shooter use Dillons with great success. They are a fantastic reloader if you're loading in high volume. If you don't load the same caliber in high volume, then they're not so appealing. I load for 4 or 5 rifle and more often than not 2 or 3 pistol cartridges, so change over would by too big of a hassle for me, so I use a Lee turret press. The dies can be set up on the turrets and left, leaving only a change of turret to change calibers. I like it a lot and it works pretty well, I get regular "less than an inch" groups from my 30/06 and .243, when I do my part, so I can't complain.

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After reading Bobby's post it dawned on me that maybe the L die thing is a joke. Maybe all that "hostility" thing was an advertising ploy. If that is true, and I hope it is, then maybe some other things I've been reading are not true. I'm going to try the M die and FCD die anyway, just to see for myself.
Thanks for the insight, Bobby.

dzrtram, I sure hope you don't get the wrong idea here, everyone's just tryin' to give their advice on equipment. Some are real adamant about what they use. The truth is it all loads good ammo. How fast and how effortless, that depends on a lot of factors.
We need more new people in this sport every day, and shouldn't get on ANYONE who asks a question. Half of what I've learned has been from experience and reading, the other half has come from asking questions, (some were even dumb questions, believe it or not). We all have to evolve our reloading tools to fit what we shoot, and what volume. You won't see Rob Leatham using a single stage press with screw in dies for .45 ACP, I bet. And you more than likely won't see Rick Jamison loading 338 mag on a Dillon. Maybe, but I doubt it. It's what fits your style and need.

It sounds to me like you've got a pretty good picture of reloading needs. Now you'll get to know what you like and don't like. I'm ashamed to admit how many reloaders I've had over the past 25 or so years, before I settled in with what I use now. Catch me in a year or so and I might be using a Dillon again myself.
The one thing that has stayed the same over the last 25 years is I still like to shoot as much as I ever did. And, I wish you guys would TYPE LOUDER cause I'm goin' deaf from shooting when I was you and dumb and didn't use hearing protection!

[ 10-12-2003, 22:13: Message edited by: Bobby ]

I thought the fued Lee had was with Sierra over the factory crimp die - Sierra didn't like the way it could distort the bullets (actually made them coke-bottle shaped) - especially Sierra's expensive MatchKing's. Lee claimed the crimp gave better accuracy, Sierra countered with the claim that a distorted bullet simply couldn't fly straight. Neither was true in every case, but I believe Sierra probably had a better overall claim than Lee did.

Lee equipment is made for low cost, so their dies used to be a little shorter than everyone elses - and didn't fit in progressive presses very well. A common work-around was to put the lock ring UNDER the die plate as there often weren't enough threads on top of the die plate for the lock ring to hold. They were supposed to fix this problem last year by going to the same length dies as the rest of the industry - but there are probably still some old stock on dealers shelves and in distributors warehouses - and will be for some years yet in the less popular calibers.

Very interesting. Thank you.

quote:

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Originally posted by CMcDermott:
I thought the fued Lee had was with Sierra over the factory crimp die - Sierra didn't like the way it could distort the bullets (actually made them coke-bottle shaped) - especially Sierra's expensive MatchKing's. Lee claimed the crimp gave better accuracy, Sierra countered with the claim that a distorted bullet simply couldn't fly straight. Neither was true in every case, but I believe Sierra probably had a better overall claim than Lee did.

Lee equipment is made for low cost, so their dies used to be a little shorter than everyone elses - and didn't fit in progressive presses very well. A common work-around was to put the lock ring UNDER the die plate as there often weren't enough threads on top of the die plate for the lock ring to hold. They were supposed to fix this problem last year by going to the same length dies as the rest of the industry - but there are probably still some old stock on dealers shelves and in distributors warehouses - and will be for some years yet in the less popular calibers.

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