Rem 700, Win Model 70, Ruger M-77??? Pros and cons please.

Savage, Savage, Savage
No gunsmith needed if you are at all handy.
Take a look at what these guys are doing with the Savages. Almost unbelievable accuracy.

www.Snipershide.com

[ 06-04-2002, 18:03: Message edited by: Bruce Gordon ]

What purpose are you building the rifle for? Benchrest? Big game? Varmints? Dangerous game? Lightweight? Beanfield?

George

I'm looking for a super-accurate hunting rifle. I'm torn between getting a H-S Precision or customizing a standard rifle. I'd like to keep the weight about the same as a standard hunting rifle and want it to be capable of sub 1/2 MOA.

My preference would run about in the order you list them though I may favour the Winchester over the 700 for a hunting rifle. My only objection to the Ruger is that dismal trigger but the receiver and bolt will work as wellas the others. I have built very accurate rifles on all. On the winchester vs Remington debate I really feel it is a toss up with current models. Regards, Bill.

I don't know what your budget for this is. I have a Winchester Custom Shop Sporting SharpShooter in 7mmSTW that was built by H-S Precision (I have all the paperwork). The test target that came with the gun was 3 shots into 0.1326". The best I've done with it is 3 shots into .22" @100yds. Cost in 1998 was about $1900.
The gun has a standard profile barrel and stock, and weighs what a sporter should.

H-S Precision's sporters run about $2000 these days.

Another option is the New Ultra Light Arms company. Mel Forbes has a great reputation for building lightweight, super-accurate rifles. Cost is about $2700.

Also, Dakota makes their M-76 for about $3600; these are beautiful, accurate rifles, made of blued steel & walnut.

George

Depending on the caliber chosen, it would be a toss-up in my mind between a pre-64 M70 (slick action) and a Rem 700. The M-70 makes a much nicer looking gun IMHO, but it's alot easier for me to get <1/2 MOA accuracy out of a remington M700 action. There are probably a hundred gunsmiths out there competent to work on the Rem. You can rework a Rem 700 into essentially a benchrest quality action far more easily than a Win M70. If your after a long cartridge like the 300WBY, 7STW, 300 Ultramag etc. then the remington mag box will work as is, while you will have to do some serious work to get the Win mag length to work. The cost of building a custom Rem 700 will undoubtably be less than the Pre-64 Win as there is less machine time involved in rebarreling. You can get a great stock from Mcmillan or HS precision to fit as well as a Jewell or shilen trigger. In distant third place would be the Ruger, for many reasons.-Rob

I have had both M70 and Rem 700 for sporting style rifles and bench rest style in calibers ranging from 6mm/06 to 375.

Jewell making a 3 lever trigger for the M70 removed one of the M70s shortfalls.

If the rifel is to be a "glue in" the Rem 700 is the way to go becuase the trigger can me removed without pulling the rifle apart. I have never glued a Model 70 in because I always figured that the vertical sides and flat bottom would make it extrenmely difficult to get apart.

For a bedded rifle I prefer M70 and not just because of the integral recoil lug and barrel switching. I have simply had more consistent accurayc over the longer term with M70s but this has been with bigger calibers such as 270 and up.

Australia like America is certainly more geared up for accurising Rem 700 actions but my experinece has been that accurising the action generally only comes into play when you are into competition benchresting and neck sizing, neck turned chambers.

If the barrel, bedding, scope and mounts are OK, then that will contribute most of the accuracy.

With a 270 and number barrel using brass full length sized so there is a round .003" headspace or using new brass and where the rifle has been chambered of about .003" headspace on new brass, 5 shot groups of .5" or less are no problem to achieve.

I would not use a Ruger for a couple of reasons. Firstly I don't think there are 3 lever triggers for them. Secondly, you are restricted with telescope mounts. Thirdly, the bedding configuration is not as good as either the Rem 700 or M70, especially if switch barrel is desired.

Bang for your buck will be far better starting with a Rem 700 action or Model 70 and giving it to a gunsmith.

Also you would be amazed the accuracy that can be obtained just using the original wood stock when the barrel is great and bedding, scope, mounts and loading techniques are all good.

In short, 1/2 inch for 5 shot groups is pretty easy to obtain but it is a long and expensive journey from .5" averages down to under .3" averages.

Mike

[ 06-05-2002, 02:55: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Any one of the three actions could serve as a base for the rifle you are looking for. The 700 Rem is the small block chevy of guns- meaning that everyone offers stocks triggers, and other custom parts for the 700. The M70 offers some design features that are generally viewed as "better" but I won't get into that. The M77 actions are ingnored by most, misunderstood by more, but can be used for a fine rifle, but the least options availible for of the three.
When considering a custom rifle my votes go for FIT, FUNCTION, RELIABILITY, and then I look for the sub 1/2 moa. all the accuracy in the world from the bench will not do you any good if the other three are not there, don't get me wrong ultimate accuracy is always in the recipe- but in order for the end product to be right ALL the ingredients mus be there.
www.duanesguns.com

hmm,
if you want it from the factory, it's a win mod 70 classic in 7 or 300 wsm. everyone i've seen, heard, touched has shot submoa with factory.
if you are building, get a savage 10 (short action) and a good trigger. But, for crist sake, dont take the bolt apart. I assume from your question that you are not an expreience gun nut, so it'll be hard to get back together.
jeffe

HI

If you consider buying a custom rifle and don't want to wait for ages contact Ed Brow he has different models for various use. Normaly they are deliverd around 14-21 days, normaly they have some models in stock for next day shipping.www.edbrown.com

I got one my self. Am I satisfied with it? I could think of getting at least 3 more...

I would build on either a commercial 98, Win, Rem

Good luck

/ JOHAN

[ 06-06-2002, 22:01: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

I build most of my custom rifles on commercial Mauser 98's and their derivatives (FN, M-70, Brno, etc.) using different species of nicely figured walnut in classic and European styles. To achieve the kind of accuracy you are after, however, this is probably not the route to go.