Sometimes I get the impression that some think if a rifle is glass bedded then all is well...

Not so, I have seen so many blotched glass bedding jobs and the owners totally confused as to why the gun will not shoot...

Even glass has to be done right, glassing a rifle takes a modicum of knowledge and experience, a good deal of study..

When finished, the metal should be coated with gold or red inletting pudding and checked, then scraped a bit to catch any high spots..the action and barrel should lay level in the stock with the barrel at center the full lenth. No rocking should be present...then remember you have the option of glassing the rifle 3 point, free float, or tight, the rifle will chose its option and that is the way it will shoot best...

So, dont just fill the stock with glass, screw everything back together and walk off, it ain't gonna work, unless you get lucky....

Before it is glassed you must know what option is best for that particular gun, so try all three, take the best, and glass it accordingly.

Ray,

I have been reading about glass bedding, so your comments were very timely for me. If the rifle performs fine from the factory will a good glass bedding job then make the rifle better?

B

Ray as I am so mechanically ignorant, I just send my rifles for someone to fix/bed whatever. I suppose I just have to trust that there skilled at what they do and follow the advice you have just talked about.

So what did people do before the advent of glass-bedding?

ZM

Zeke--

Stocks were carefully inletted. Some are still shooting and hunting today after a hundred years.

Most of my rifles aren't glassed.

So what causes a rifled action to sit nice in the stock with no bolts but when you tighten down the action screws the forend bends up to touch the barrel. My M 70 does this.

Markus,
That would usually indicate that there is a high spot under the middle of the action. Proper glass bedding could cure it as could proper hand bedding.
As Ray said (in a kind of oblique fashion)glass bedding is not necessarily an easy, quick fix. Glass bedding needs to be approached in a reasoned manner to accomplish a good job.
A new stock of good wood can be hand bedded and be very good indeed. With a factory stock though, the bedding is already done and probably not too well at that. All the wailing about lost arts can't fix this but epoxy can!
Proper glass bedding can help any factory rifle and the knowledge of how to properly do it is knowledge any gunsmith should have. It is an important part of modern gunsmithing. Often times it seems the schools don't teach this and kind of shortchange their students and the students ultimate employers or customers.
Properly done, glass bedding can compensate for deficiencies in a particular piece of stock wood. It can also repair and strenghten a stock that is splitting because it was improperly bedded in the first place. That the traditionalists hate it does not invalidate it's usefulness. Regards, Bill.

I have a question about glass bedding that would seem to fit here... I am about to embark on a bedding project and I intend on bedding the barrel channel along with the action bedding. I will then remove some of the bedding from the barrel channel to free float the barrel. My question is, how much clearance should the barrel have around it? I'm sure there is a minimum clearance requirement, but is there a recommended upper limit? It would seem to make sense that there would be to prevent debris from easily collecting around the barrel. Any "rules of thumb" for maximum and minimum clearance would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

Bill--

You got it.....EXACTLY!!

When I became the stockmaking instructor in 1976 at CST they were teaching students to glass bed using the tang screws. They were making the (wrong) bedding permanent with epoxy. At that time I taught "pillar bedding" by inserting a small spacer (usually pieces of flat toothpicks) inserted at the bearing spots to support the action for glassing and holding it all together with a clamp on the action.

I see five time more BAD glass bedding jobs for every one that's done right. Ray got it right. It seems most shooters think its the epoxy that makes glass bedding benificial. It isn't. It's how it's applied.

bobvthunter---

I did one as you describe yesterday. Wrap duct tape on the portion of the barrel you want freefloated and glass it . When you remove the tape you have an .008 clearance. Then if you want some upward pressure you KNOW how much to add.

[ 12-05-2002, 20:13: Message edited by: JBelk ]

Ray,

Good post.

Is there any books on the subject that you could recomend?

Daryl

bobvthunter,
I like to see .035"-040" clearance on most sporter weight barrels. That clearance is at the most extreme end of the forend tip. When you pull the barreled action out of a stock that I bedded, you'll see a significant amount of material removed in the barrel channel, directly underneath the barrel. This is something that cannot be seen when the rifle is assembled. I do this to eliminate the amount of wood that can be effected by weather and temperature variations. On either side of the barrel, I like to see around .010" clearance consistently down the length of the barrel. Around the action, I undercut the wood so that the glass will have plenty of room to move and fall into position. By undercutting the inletting, it allows to have a extremely nice bed job for the functionality of it all, but at the same time, you don't have be looking at the glass on the top side of the stock when it's assembled. As much as I like to use glass bedding, the last thing that I want, is to have to look at it when the rifle is assembled. A quality professional bedding job should never be able to be seen without removing the action from the stock. If you can see it, it was done by someone either in too big a hurry, or by someone who didn't care. In any case, don't spend your money on it.

Another question? What is "over determined" when used in relation with bedding? I've seen it used to describe bedding jobs that went up the side, between the action and the stock.

I seem to have the best luck with bedding jobs that only have bedding on the bottom, not on the sides. Any one care to hazard an opinion why? TIA, Dutch.

Lots of questions on glassing...

1. I would not glass a rifle that shoots well, leave well enough alone, if it quits shooting good then glass it. Just seal the wood, remember under the grip cap and recoil pad, inside the inletting.

2. I don't believe any gap should show on the side of the barrel channal, that should be inletted by hand...the gap however big should be underneath the barrel channal and extend to just short of the edge of the barrel channel...that way it looks great and no crap can seep or get in the channel..

3. To Free float tape the barrel lenthwise with a couple of layers of tape ( I use paper tape ) that extends just short of the barrel channell edges or even one layer on the channel edges looks pretty good and saves you a lot of work...Do not tape in the chamber area or about two inches in front of the chamber should be free of tape..

4. A barreled action and barrel should be pressed into the glass with guide screws only and let it settle with no tension..the barrel should be to center lenthwise and compatible with the stock, in other words straight and level..this is done prior to glassing with positioning indicaters of one sort or another...when the tape is peeled your gun is free floated..If 3 point is need then add a layer of tape or two about and inch behind the forend and go shoot it, if that works then put some glass in front of the tape and assemble the gun untill dried, then you have permanent upward pressure on the forend that acts as a reference or anchor if you will, and guarentees the barrel to return to the same point each shot. Note that some guns shoot better this way, some do not...You also have another option and that is an extra slopping of glass in the free floated barrel channel, snug the gun down by reassembly or stretch bands, let cure and presto you have a tight bedded gun and some guns shoot better this way...but you must proceed in the above order or you will have to remove the bedding between each change..That is why I suggest that one finds out how a gun shoots best before glassing, saves a world of work..This can be done with shims placed in key positions and try.

5. After a gun is glassed, then go back and mop your metal with lipstick, black or what ever you use and check the glass bed, scrape it where needed. You would be surprised how much is left to be done OR one can thin glass and give it a paint coat, press it down and walk away until cured..be sure and scrap or sand the bedding lightly so the paint coat will adhere.

6. I have read a lot on glassing but do not recall what or where over the years I read in magazines like Rifle, Handloader and whatever...Mostly I depend on the fact that I have glassed several thousand rifles I guess, maybe half that, maybe twice that, who knows.

7. All that said, I have a number of rifles that I built and no glass, been using them all over the world of 30 to 40 years without a problem..

I have some that are glassed, same deal, been using them for decades...

Glass is not the answer to all the worlds problems. It is a viable option, along with pillar bedding and Aluminum bar stabilization, but any method of inletting "properly done" seems to work about as well as the next...It is all in the application and skill of the applicator.

A very expensive, properly laid out. properly cured and properly finished, piece of French or Turkish walnut, properly inletted is about as good as it gets...but you can't have much marble cake.