I mounted a heavy Swarovski Habicht PH 6-24x50 on the top of my new Tikka T3 Varmint B.B 338 Win. I didnt use the original Optik mounts by Sako, because in my country are too expensive U$400 ; (I paid u$1300 for the rifle !!!) so I replaced them with an old manufacture Warnes Q.D. detachable mount (From a REM 700) using the existing screw holes and modificating a little the ring bases. Because the bases are two pieces, I took this simple tool to do the work in the right way, with this devices is very easy to check the alignment between the rings in all directions and make the necesary corrections to avoid the scope tube bent or strain, I hope this post serve to somebody, I made this tool myself, but you can obtain it at brownnells.Regards

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No question this will show you that the two rings are aligned...

Ken....

With all due respect, this will only tell you if the points of the tool point at each other. The rings could be tipped, twisted, etc and the tool will still show the tips together in most cases.

If they are equa-distant from each other (ie cenetered in the rings ) they will be correct. Only if they have unequal length projecting will they possibly be wrong.

IF the square ends are faced off square in a lathe, IF you turn them end for end, THEN you can check your mounts for proper alignment. With the points together you can make it "read" anything. I have to laugh everytime I see one of the ads that shows the points together. Bill

Brownnells the world largest supplier of firearms gunsmithing tools is wrong ? I dont think so

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Store/ProductDetail.as...SCOPE+ALIGNMENT+RODS


SLEEVED SCOPE ALIGNMENT RODS

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Mfr: BROWNELLS

Perfect Scope Ring Alignment For Both 1" & 30mm Rings
Aligns scope rings quickly; puts an end to kinked or "dinged" scope bodies. When the two points touch, your rings are perfectly aligned. Versatile, adjustable-length design work for all ring spacings, from close to wide. Outer sleeves fit both 1" and 30mm scope rings. Sliding, inner rods clearly show if bases need shim-ming or if receiver holes are correctly aligned.
SPECS: Machined steel, in-the-white. Kit includes (1) 8½" (21cm) long rod, (1) 5½" (14cm) long rod, (2) 1"/30mm diameter outer ring sleeves, and complete instructions in a hard-shell storage box.

A better tool would be two long bushing the OD of the scope with a precision hole reamed concentrically in both. The hole should be a .0003 clearance (say .5000' dia) for a piece of about 10" long precision ground stock say .4997 diameter.
When the piece of ground stock will slide through both bushings the rings are in alignment with each other but not necessarily in line with the receiver or the bore.

If the rods are machined true and the rings have the sides parallel the only way the points would meet and not be centered would be for the rings to be off EXACTLY the same amount and in opposite directions. The chances of this are remote I would believe. This would in no way check whether they are parallel to the bore in any case.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
A better tool would be two long bushing the OD of the scope with a precision hole reamed concentrically in both. The hole should be a .0003 clearance (say .5000' dia) for a piece of about 10" long precision ground stock say .4997 diameter.
When the piece of ground stock will slide through both bushings the rings are in alignment with each other but not necessarily in line with the receiver or the bore.

Ireload2:
This is a good idea, you must patend it !!! and sell it to Brownnells inc. Regards: Guillermo.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
If the rods are machined true and the rings have the sides parallel the only way the points would meet and not be centered would be for the rings to be off EXACTLY the same amount and in opposite directions. The chances of this are remote I would believe. This would in no way check whether they are parallel to the bore in any case.

That is BS. If the rings are rotated, one clockwise and one counter-clockwise, in an extreme case, they could both be off 30deg or more and the points would still line up. Like I said, the only thing this tool tells you is if the points on the tool point to each other.

Guillermo,

Looks like you did a nice job of adapting those mounts!

I like putting a scope in the center of the windage and elevation range, tightening the scope in the rings, and glassing the bottom of the mounts to the receiver with the scope aligned with the bore. When the glass hardens, remove scope and rings and tighten the mount screws.

This has some advantages:
1) Rings not married to a rifle
2) Scope and rings move from rife to rifle in seconds and start out on the paper
3) No stress on the scope
4) Does not destroy the rings with lapping.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
If the rods are machined true and the rings have the sides parallel the only way the points would meet and not be centered would be for the rings to be off EXACTLY the same amount and in opposite directions. The chances of this are remote I would believe. This would in no way check whether they are parallel to the bore in any case.

Zimbabwe; I agree with you regarding the bore axis alignment, but I think that this cheap tool is an easy way to check if the ring are discretionally aligned before putting a scope and ruin the main tube. Note, that Im talking about separate dovetail bases (Non one piece or pivoting mount sistem) Consider this:
In a dovetail separate bases sistem;
if the rings are twisted,
if the bases have misaligned holes,
if the bases have diferentes height,
the receiver has missaligned holes or differents diameter (common in some cheap manufacturers or bad custom made rifles; the point of the rods never will be aligned.For one piece mount I prefer that the back portion of the mount be a little high to compesate the bullet drop and have more elevation turret flexibility, better if the reticle is centered with your rifle zeroed at the chosen distance. In my Tikka I centered the reticle scope first, when I shoot for first time, I only have to do 3 clicks to move the point of impact to the left at 150 yards(Maybe for the dextrogiro (dextrosum) effect) and 6 clicks up for the bullet drop. IT works for me!!!.The rifle shoot submoa at 150 yards. I dont worry about the thousands of milimiter in metalwork, the steel moves more than that when the gun shot and become hot and its almost impossible to put exactly parallel the scope axis with the bore axis, there are a lot of things in play, the receiver and barrel screw concentricity, receiver diameter, land and grooves holes etc... that change old the time with the environment and shoot temp. Sorry for my bad speak english Regards.Guillermo.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
Guillermo,

Looks like you did a nice job of adapting those mounts!

Thanks, Im not a gunsmith I just do this for pleasure in my free time, see my two others works:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3221043/m/567105757
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2911043/m/457107557

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

That is BS. If the rings are rotated, one clockwise and one counter-clockwise, in an extreme case, they could both be off 30deg or more and the points would still line up. Like I said, the only thing this tool tells you is if the points on the tool point to each other.

Warne QD dove tail base rotated?

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I like putting a scope in the center of the windage and elevation range, tightening the scope in the rings, and glassing the bottom of the mounts to the receiver with the scope aligned with the bore. When the glass hardens, remove scope and rings and tighten the mount screws.

This has some advantages:
1) Rings not married to a rifle
2) Scope and rings move from rife to rifle in seconds and start out on the paper
3) No stress on the scope
4) Does not destroy the rings with lapping.

That is a good idea when you use mount bases with radius, (I use Poxipol Remember it ?) but in my case the botton bases and receiver top are flat. Thanks for sharing your tips!!!Regards;Guillermo

I have the original Wheeler Engineering ring lapping kit and it came with two round rods machined flat across the ends, the lap bar and compound. When I check rings with this setup, then lap it shows the same pattern of lapping, so they read correct- and one short action Savage had .027 hor and .010 vert out- a lot. I see now they are selling some of the pointy ones and I passed because I though the same as many here, that won't tell you anything except the tips on the tool line up. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by Guillermo Amestoy:

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
A better tool would be two long bushing the OD of the scope with a precision hole reamed concentrically in both. The hole should be a .0003 clearance (say .5000' dia) for a piece of about 10" long precision ground stock say .4997 diameter.
When the piece of ground stock will slide through both bushings the rings are in alignment with each other but not necessarily in line with the receiver or the bore.

Ireload2:
This is a good idea, you must patend it !!! and sell it to Brownnells inc. Regards: Guillermo.

Sorry, this tool already exists. Or, will in about another 15 minutes.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by Guillermo Amestoy:

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
A better tool would be two long bushing the OD of the scope with a precision hole reamed concentrically in both. The hole should be a .0003 clearance (say .5000' dia) for a piece of about 10" long precision ground stock say .4997 diameter. When the piece of ground stock will slide through both bushings the rings are in alignment with each other but not necessarily in line with the receiver or the bore.

Ireload2:
This is a good idea, you must patend it !!! and sell it to Brownnells inc. Regards: Guillermo.

Sorry, this tool already exists. Or, will in about another 15 minutes.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by Guillermo Amestoy:

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
A better tool would be two long bushing the OD of the scope with a precision hole reamed concentrically in both. The hole should be a .0003 clearance (say .5000' dia) for a piece of about 10" long precision ground stock say .4997 diameter.
When the piece of ground stock will slide through both bushings the rings are in alignment with each other but not necessarily in line with the receiver or the bore.

Ireload2:
This is a good idea, you must patend it !!! and sell it to Brownnells inc. Regards: Guillermo.

Sorry, this tool already exists. Or, will in about another 15 minutes.

Let me know how it works.

Gents,

I gotta recall the very old days of geometry class, in that two points, not one, define a straight line......i.e. the tool is not precise.

BTW.....years ago I talked with Brownells about the tool, and they agreed.

Just my $0.02.....

Kevin

Two flat ends give a better view to square up with but only with a depth mic. can you determine shim thickness. But to be perfect you must lapp them together.

Or you can just use Burris Signature rings and the alignment problems pretty much become a non issue. Plus the grip those inserts exert is amazing, the scope will not move.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
If the rods are machined true and the rings have the sides parallel the only way the points would meet and not be centered would be for the rings to be off EXACTLY the same amount and in opposite directions. The chances of this are remote I would believe. This would in no way check whether they are parallel to the bore in any case.

That is BS. If the rings are rotated, one clockwise and one counter-clockwise, in an extreme case, they could both be off 30deg or more and the points would still line up. Like I said, the only thing this tool tells you is if the points on the tool point to each other.

"Off the same amount, opposite directions"...

"One clockwise, the other counterclockwise"...

Sounds like your guys are saying the same thing, what's the disagreement about?!

Think of a pencil touching paper, with the point still, you can move the eraser all around.

Since you already made them, install them with the points facing away from each other. This way, the flat ends will show misalignment in the form of an air gap and height or parallel differences will show in the form of a ridge.

Cheers