Here is a stock design I have put together from Alvin Lindens books and everything I have ever read, seen photos of and heard about regarding large-bore, heavy recoiling rifles using open sights.I have no idea why the colors are different but the bottom one is more representative of the actual color of the blank. Also there is the optical illusion generated by not being exactly over the blank when I took the photo. The P-14 receiver is just as it would be if it were fitted into a stock. It does look slightly cramped but it isn't in reality.

Butt height: 5.25"
Grip height, nose of comb to tip of grip: 3.5"
Grip tip to center trigger: 5"
Grip diameter: 1.5" (this will be thickness, height will be slightly more)
Length of pull: 14.5"
Drop at heel: 2.25", will probably make 2.5"
Length of forearm, front receiver ring to tip: 7.5"
Pitch: approximately 4", this depends on the finished height of the front sight and rear receiver sight.
Cast off: I am looking for about 3/8"

I am open to any and all comments, I won't be making chips for some time yet.

Thank you..

[ 10-29-2003, 20:00: Message edited by: Nitroman ]

Nitroman that looks like the stock I was trying to buy . I going through the same thing trying to figure out how to design the stock I want. I got a fruitless Mulberry blank that has lemon yellow heartwood,little bit of lacy grain with streaks of brown water marks and a hint of very light fiddleback. So I need to find just the right design to show it off.

Why not contact Rod@acarbond, about having it lamitnated, I did and feel thats the best was to go if I want to keep it looking beautiful.

That's a lot of pitch and drop by todays standards. It's also a very short forearm. Of all of the old English magazine rifles I have measured, the forearm was 8 to 8 1/2 inches long. Those dimensions will certainly work for you, if that is what you want.

For the cast off I generally go a 1/4 inch at the heal and 3/8 at the toe. It will follow the crease at the junction of the chest and shoulder better than a straight cast off.

Good luck on your stock job.

Nitroman also check out Custom Guns look at #17 our own Charles Worthing did the stock work.Might give you some other ideas.

This is exactly why I solicited comments.

Coondawg thanks for the replies, if I could afford the kind of wood that Chic works with I would have just let him do this for me.

Scroll...I haven't settled on the pitch yet, I need to get the drop fixed and find out how the sights sit before I can go anywhere on that. I have spent more than a year looking at different websites finding double rifles with photographs that are almost perfectly side-on, with the barrel length given. I can then use a finely marked millimeter plastic ruler to measure and make a conversion so I can find the drop. I have thin the average I came up with is around 2 and 3/8's inch. I also looked at shotguns and what listed drops they had.
Atkinson is always talking about how the grip should be long to account for various positions the rifle will be held in, whether crawling on hands and knees under brush, bent over trying not to be seen and just plain enough room to move around in. So I made this one long. It really feels good from the plexiglas pattern. Wundhammer made his 4", I made this 5".
I used two patterns of Lindens to bring the center of the stock together. He had one for the Enfield that was kind of chubby for my taste and one that oozes elegance for the '03 Springfield. He had dimensions of the grip, grip to trigger and LOP in another booklet for a genuine Wundhammer and I used those. Finally I took two plexiglas forms, cut them at the center of the wrists and glued in a shaped piece of plexiglas until I had what I wanted. I then traced that form out onto a clean piece and there it sits under your eyes. It took me long enough and I think it is going to work quite well.

The only thing I am truly concerned with is the cast off and the toe-in and toe-out. I am toying with the idea of doing everything from the forearm tip to the wrist then sending it out to a pro so it won't be screwed up. There are too many different plains for me to be tackling on my first stock I am thinking.

I wonder if it would be worth buying a plain old chunk of spruce 3x6 and hacking, hewing, sanding, and making the amendments with Bondo until you have exactly the shape you want - and then using it for a template and letting somebody rough out your good blank with a duplicator? Just a thought...but spruce is cheap and easy to work, and the practice might even be fun!

Tumbleweed,

That would be just too easy!! Why didn't I think of that?

If you look at some of the air guns, (pellet)some of them have nice style to them. Thats what I started looking at. Then I went out and bought some styrofoam to work with. Less trouble and cheaper too. If you haven't bought the spruce yet try the styrofoam.

Notroman,
You need to get your barreled action completed before you settle on the drop. Grind those ears off, fit a barrel and get it ready to inlet. I think you have have too much drop, but it is entirely dependent on your face. The 2001 Guild rifle had 5/8 and 1 1/2. It was based on the "average" guy being able to get his face ont he stock and have his eye find the sights in perfect alignment. Well it just doesnt work that way. Ain't no average guy although it did fit me . You are building this for you so you have to shoulder some rifles and see what drop fits your face and even more important what would fit the open sights you have on it. When you find a stock that fits you, have someone else mark where the middle of your cheek contact is on the comb. Then using the drop dimensions of that stock you can figure out what drop will fit you in a different scheme. You may be able to get the same drop starting with something lower at the nose and higher at the heel. The higher you can get the heel, the better the recoil will feel (less muzzle jump).

Don't pay much attention to what someone tells you about the length of the grip for crawling through bushes, what matters is when it in your hands coming up to take a shot. That is when fit matters, not how it happens to feel when some extraneous thing happens along the way. I think the pitch, length of pull and some of the other dimensions are a bit excessive also. Try as many stocks as you can and find a grip that feels real good to you. Take those dimensions and create a pattern from them. The other thing to do is make a pattern out of a 95% inlet you can get from a number of places and play with it. Slap some bondo on it here and there and when you are satisfied that it fits you and after you glass your action into it, send it and your blank (which looks very nice btw) off to someone to duplicate it for you. Once your action and sights are on the pattern, you can make some tries to get the comb of the stock just right. My 338/06 fits me with my eyes closed but it was built for me. Once you get the pattern fitting you to a "T" you dont have to worry about screwing up with dimensions and making an error when you carve the blank. Then when you get the blank back from the duplicator, you are way ahead of the game. You can also put a skeleton grip cap, or an inletted sling swivel base in the pattern and have a very classy touch on your rifle.

What caliber are you building and what are you going to use it for? Barrel band sling swivel I am assuming. I agree with the assesment of Roger (Scroll cutter) who knows his way around a stock as well as any stockmaker.

Howdy Chic,

This is for the .600, to duplicate the weight and velocity of the .600 Nitro. Meaning 16 pound rifle and a 2000 fps velocity at 20 yards. Not a high recoil velocity but there will be some movement associated with it. For that reason I wanted to have some room to move the right hand.

I have one rifle and one stock that I love, the German guild rifle I picked up over the summer in 8x60 and a Husqvarna Model 46 stock. Unfortunately they are both too svelte for this brute. The guild rifle is very, very close to what you see there in plexiglas. I shaped the knob grip and nose from it. The shape of the buttstock from the nose back is almost the same too just the butt height is about 5". I am going to try to make the thickness as much as I can without it looking weird and ugly. I have found that making a 0.25" change at any one point necessitates making changes everywhere. It is remarkable how a little extra here or there throws the proportions off.

I tried the closed-eye, toss it up and take a peek method, I need some more drop than the guild rifle had. It has 1.5" drop from the centerline of the bore too. So does the Husky stock. I think 2.25 would do it well and allow for a variety of clothes to be worn. You are correct in that, I should build something cheepo and make it work before cutting the good wood.
As for the forearm length, I find I never seem to use up all that wood hanging out there, prefering a grip that is much closer to the receiver.

I have a banded swivel from NECG that I did sometning different with, I cut it in half and contoured the edges so they flow real nice.

As for the pitch, well, I don't know it'll be severe, Mark sez the barrel looks, "like a sewer pipe", it is so big. it won't feel that way though since much of the mass is going to be in the forearm as the barrel rapidly contours out to 0.875" at the muzzle.

I am copying and saving this to my "How To Make A Stock", file. I will look around for a cheepo inlet to see what I can do. Thanks again for the replies and advice.

I opened this topic and the first thing that ran thru my mind was "That's way too much drop at heel".

The American classic minimal drop at heel style with the straight comb is hard to beat for looks and recoil management.

But whatever fits you. If this is a 600 NE it is going to whack your face badly, I'd think.

Pete

nitroman:

Being as this rifle is going to be a real thumper, I would suggest you keep the stock as straight as possible. Both in regards to drop, and cast off. The more the stock is bent the more torque the recoil is going to have. Same with the pitch. Keep it as close to 90 degrees to the bore as possible.
Chic's stock measurements of 5/8 at comb and 1 1/2 at heal is a great place to start. Keep in mind that cast off is going to affect sight alignment as well. Decide the cast first, then adjust drop.
I think you will like the 5" grip. I own a rifle that Ottmar built for me and it has a 5" grip. He started the grip at 1/2" to the rear of the rear gaurd screw centerline. It is as comfortable a grip as I have held.
I also hold with Chic's recommendation to build a pattern. Have on of these stock duplicator people machine the inletting into a cheap straight grain piece of walnut and then you can spend your time playing with the stock shape until you get it right.

By the way, Chic makes his living building stocks. The pros spend a lot of time working out these measurements. I would listen to what he has to say, first.

[ 09-03-2003, 15:29: Message edited by: Scrollcutter ]