Hi All!
I have a pretty clean little Remington Model 30A in .30 Remington that I'm considering for a DGR candidate. Problem with it is that someone along the way did a "swiss cheesy" job drilling scope mount holes right smack into the roll engraved sighting "trough" down the middle of the front ring and rear bridge. The front two are probably OK to leave as they could used or even be opened up to a larger size if necessary. I like scout scope configurations which puts the scope far away from my thrice busted brow! ...so maybe use it in that capacity. However the rear bridge holes (3) need to be filled in my book. Any suggestions on the process?

Do I need to make a casting of the roll engraved trough before having this TIG'ed? Is there anyone that can re-roll engraved this OR anyone that might even have the original roll engraving dies? (optimistically ...it never hurts to ask!)

Thinking along the lines of a 450 Rigby or 470 Mbogo for this action....I've got a set of Jim Wisner's Enfield Rigby bottom metal (follower, spring, etc) in the works for this project. I was originally thinking along the lines of a .505 Rimless (Gibbs) like one I saw that Frank Wells had built on a Model 30. I talked with Jim about this and he said that it can be done (he recently finished one for a friend) but the Rigby case offers an easier solution for the P17 style bolt used in the Model 30.

Thanks!
Jeff Pfeifer

I don't know about the roll marks, but I see no reason that tig welding the rear holes should be a problem. Is Jim Wisner still making Enfield bottom metal? If so, how do you get in touch with him? Any idea about price? Thanks - Dan

Dan,
You can call Jim on Fridays from 9 AM to 1 PM PST at 360-748-3743. I believe that only he can really answer that question and don't want to steer you wrong either way. He mentioned that the steel stock that he makes these sets from is expensive so I guess that is presently a barrier to making more. If demand was there I suppose he might. I had him do a run of M70 three pos safeties for the Siamese mausers a few years back. I had to invest in (5) to make it feasible for him to do this, but he was gracious enough to squeeze these in. He hadn't done these for something like 12 years he said. He has been forced to invest his time into things that will pay consistently to make ends meet.

Maybe if you really want a set of these you can get together a group buy of these from guys like yourself who are needing the same. This would perhaps create a win-win for all parties!

9/11 dealt his business a hard blow. He's a great guy and truly a master of his craft! Do give him a call.
Regards,
Jeff P

Jeff--

I can TIG the holes and hand engrave the pecker tracks if you like. How many holes?? THREE! Yikes!

email me.

Damm- I really like those Model 30's. Do you happen to have the original stock? I passed on one this weekend that had been drilled in a similar fashion. You need a P-14 bolt for the .505 Gibbs and would have to modify it for cock on open. I've built a 470 MBOGO on a 1917 enfield and while the 1917 bolt would have worked, I did use a P-14 bolt. All in all it worked out really nicely. This is a really nice cartridge and a heck of alot easier to get to work than a 505 Gibbs IMHO.-Rob

Jack,
Funny you mention that! JimW suggested that I talk with you about this too! I was also considering talking with Boise resident George Hoenig and his engraving partner. Would this be something that I could run it down to you on a Saturday and take care of it or would you need more time...not a problem either way as I don't want to rush something like this...email me separately if you like. Would be good to finally meet you...tried a year or so ago at the Boise gun show but you know how that goes/went!

Robgunbuilder,
This rifle is one of those that would be worth alot more if it hadn't been messed with. It is in .30 Rem which is one of the more rare calibers, however it is missing the Lyman 48R (stock is cut for it), rear sight and has these scope holes in it. So the collector value is not much in it's present condition. I found another Lyman 48R but guy wanted $90 for it. It does have a very nice checkered walnut schnabel stock with the inverted steel buttplate. The area right behind the action has some oil soaking but it is a nice stock - a soaking in lacquer thinner should help that. It is a smallish stock however - I'm 6'4" and DGR's and me need to have long LOP's to get along! There is a minor rub in the checkering on the forend from a ride in the truck gun rack from some hunting trip long ago. I was thinking of putting the stock, barrel and the bottom metal on ebay if a local friend doesn't want it as that is quite the seller's tool. He has several Model 30's that could use this as well. Or I may just hang onto it for the next Model 30 that I run across.

Certainly open to offers / trades though

I came across a Model 30S in 7x57 with double set triggers juat a few months before I picked up this one...another one that got away!

I do have a new in the cosmoline P14 bolt that I was thinking of using with this if needed. Would you recommend this after having gone through your 470 Mbogo conversion?

Jeff P

pfeifer- Your way ahead with a model 30 action in building a 470 MBOGO and yes I'd use the P-14 bolt. The action rails and ramp need quite a bit of massaging, but with your custom bottom metal you should have no problems with the box dimensions.
I have a pretty nice Model 30 (first issue) in 30-06. with the correct stock and am always looking for another one. I wish I had a messed with one for making another big bore with.

Was just at the local gunsmiths today and lo and behold another Model 30! from 1934. It came in a large lot of actions and barrels from Jeff Davis' estate I believe. It might however be spoken for. It has a total of 4 drilled holes for the scope bases, but they are cleanly done. This action does however have a slight bit of pitting under the woodline. Dick was barreling it to .375 H&H. He ordered an inexpensive P-17? box for it - it has a floorplate/guard on it - Didn't study to see exactly which one. I believe he said it had already been straightened.

Also there was a looong Shultz & Larsen action with roll engraved receiver top. Interesting action. Wonder how good that tiny extractor is? Comments anyone?

JP

Pfeiffer: I rather like my Schultz. Not withstanding the rear locking I believe them to be very strong actions and they are beautifully machined and fitted. Stories of set back and case stretching I think are due in part from loaders taking advantage of the strength of the action and loading them much too hot. I have had no extractor problems and don't really consider it that samll if you compare to a Remington, or the current Sako extractor. They obviously don't have as much bite as a Mauser type though. I haven't examined all their models so there may be differences that I'm not aware of.
The length of the action is a bit decieving as the rear bridge extends to the very end of the action. It is not any longer than a Mauser including tang or a model 70 and the bolt throw is actually as short as one of those and shorter than the other. I had to measure one of each of mine to see that but I don't recall which was the longest throw of the other two. I think it may have been my Mauser.
Overall design seems a little odd but they were quality made and mine is a very accurate rifle that has required no tweaking to be accurate.
I think one day I'll restock it in an Express rifle style as the original stock is a bit Californyish for my tastes.

I ran down my copy of DeHaas' Bolt Action Rifles last night and read up on the Model 30 and the Shultz & Larsen actions.

The Model 30 at the shop was a bit unusual as it is marked "1934..." on the left side of the front ring. I noticed that in the appendix of DeHaas' book under Remington there was an article about just such a gun in the Dope Bag of Am Rifleman!

stocker - WRT the Shultz & Larsens thanks for your comments! I agree that these are very well made actions (that is all this one is - no rifle). This one had a stub of the original barrel left for thread duplication and it had been chambered in a belted magnum. I couldn't find the same action in DeHaas' book therefore I assume that this is a later model. It had the more streamlined trigger guard with the floorplate release in the bow - a model 68? perhaps. I didn't get the model # listed on the side of the action. A friend has both Otteson books and I know that these are in there. It was a bit purplish in color from the aging of the bluing. The one thing that DeHaas' mentioned that concerned me was getting cases in/out of the action by hand - since the action is not open from the top. Any comments anyone?

Is such an action suitable for a DGR? It certainly should be a strong action. My tendency (out of ignorance perhaps!) is to avoid it in favor of something that has a bit better access. My gunsmith really liked these actions though and he's 75 so he should know.

jp

Pfeiffer: It sounds like the M68 which is what I have. The loading port is O.K. for dropping one in to go up the spout. My fingers don't fit it to load the magazine from the top. Load the mag by opening the floor plate and just dropping the rounds in. The follower has a central length wise ridge on it so it is not specific to having to have the first shell to one side of the box. Either way works equally well. I would think that small ejection port adds considerable rigidity to the action. Most common belted cases that they were produced in were 7 X 61 S & H, 308 Norma Mag., 358 Norma Mag. . I have also seen them in standard calibers (@70, /06). What was the price on the action?

Don't have a price...we didn't get that far on it. Owner just said "I've got something that you need...!" and showed it to me. They got it in a pile of actions and rifles from an estate. A gunsmith's cash cow or nightmare? depeding on how you look at it I guess. There was a nice Oberndorf Chilean '35 bannered Mauser action in there as well.

jp

Pfeifer---

You said--

quote:

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There was a nice Oberndorf Chilean '35 bannered Mauser action in there........

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Now I'm getting a better idea of what it'll cost to weld and re-engrave that M-30S.

See my other post on "bannered mausers"! Your thoughts? Chilean bannered Oberndorf or large bannered with nicely checkered three panel swept back (and then forward slightly at the knob) bolt????

I spoke with Wisner today and he said that he is going to do a few 404J boxes this summer

jp

Pfeifer,

I saw a technique used once which may provide the solution to your problem. The Gunsmith threaded the end of a steel rod so it tightly fit the threaded holes. Using Loctite, he tightened the rod into the hole using a pair of vise-grip pliers. He then cut the rod off and filed the shank flush with the receiver. The action was polished and blued and the filled holes were virtually undetectable. For the roll stamping, you could fill the holes in this manner and then use a suitably shaped stamping tool to blend into the rest of the pattern.

JBelk,
Which would you choose to build a .404J on?

Bobster,
Thanks for the tip. My gunsmith has used a similar technique in a blind threaded barrel hole but finished it off by peening around the sides of the screw & barrel. When the barrel was blued the screw was almost impossible to find.

These threaded holes however are not blind so I was thinking that TIG'ing may be the "best" (certainly not the only) way, but what do I know! Using locktite makes me uncomfortable however as I know it softens with heat...that is what I use to get chewed up locktited screws loosened up, so I wonder what a hot bluing tank would do? May work just fine - Anyone tried it?
jp

Pfeifer,

This particular rifle was rust blued. You are probably right if it is salts blued. Maybe the threads could be "tinned" with silvaloy solder and then sweated in. That wouldn't loosen.

Pfeifer--

The best way to *hide* a hole is by welding or driving a tapered pin in and peening both sides, but you can't use the tapered pin method if you're going to reuse the hole or a part of it for another hole.

As far as the 404 project....

The front ring banner would certainly lend an air of "legitimatcy" to the rifle. The overall new quality was about the same. The condition now, more than 50 years later, is a matter you'll have to decide.