The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Octagon barrel band sightGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Octagon barrel band sight | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
TC1 was kind enough to add some photos of my prototype of an octagon barrel banded front sight.They are on the post about my Pierce Remington clone. I would like comments and suggestions if you have time to look. Bear in mind that I will machine another and the tooling marks will not be like the trial model. Also the octagon has not been cut on the inside yet. The bands wall thickness will be about .020. I need input before I spend a lot of time doing one. Do you like it or does it look like shit? Butch | ||
|
One of Us |
looks good to me...heck can you make a single blade rear band sight also Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
One of Us |
Mr. Lambert, I like it and think its well worth your time to do. I also am working with an octogon barrel for a 338/06 with a intergal octogon front sight and barrel swivel. Mine is at .03 thick and have the same questions ...Is it too thick? I think yours looks good at that thickness! If you dont mind i'd like to throw up a picture and get your thoughts about it! _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would love to see it! Butch | |||
|
| One of Us |
This is what i have so far...I deleated other picture, a little blurry, here is a better one. So, Is it too thick and need slimmed down, or is it o.k..  _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
One of Us |
Delete the scallops | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree on the scallops. Are you going to solder it to the barrel to do the shaping on the ramp or do you have a tapered mandrel for it to fit on while you taper the ramp? It is a good start though. How did you do your internal octagon? Butch | |||
|
| One of Us |
The scallops are going to stay until I finish the back end of the barrel. There will be scallops there too, at the back end where it meets the cylinder (breech). If it looks to artsy fartsy it won't take too much to lose the scallops. There won't be any soldering, as it is part of the barrel blank. The barrel, sight ramp and band are one peice, as is the middle barrel band swivel and quarter rib. So does the thickness of the sight band look to be alright? _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
| One of Us |
I didn't realize that it was intregal, you don't have a problem holding it. I do think the ramp needs to be tapered to the rear. Good luck with it and keep the photos coming. Butch | |||
|
| One of Us |
STEVE: Can't rain on my parade, I have an umbrella  This is my very first octagon barrel and my very first attempt at doing an intgregal barrel on a brand new mill. (First project). Ralph does damn nice work, but he's been at it longer than I have. I do admire his work everytime I see it. Like I said, I can lose the scallops in five minutes work time. BUTCH: The barrel is far from being done. I'm going to be working on the back end of the barrel and quarter rib next. Then I'll come back to the front sight ramp, then the front sight will be tapered and the banded sling mount and quarter rib will be finished. Thanks for everybody's input, I'll post a picture of complete barrel when finished. _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
| One of Us |
To my eye it appears to be in scale- quite correct. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank you for THE answer to my question. _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ditto. | |||
|
| one of us |
Leaving style out of it, I think execution and workmanship on both pieces are excellant. To my eye .030" might be a tad bit thick. I think it would be worthwhile to try .025". Craftsman | |||
|
| One of Us |
Craftsman: Thanks for the input. I guess i should finish it first and then stand back and study it for a few days and go from there! The picture i threw up there is my own work and not an example of something someone else done. _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
One of Us |
While this is certainly clean looking, I can't for the life of me understand why folks insist on placing their ramps so close to the muzzle. I guess they don't expect anything to ever happen that might require re-crowning. I wish those who insist on doing this would think ahead. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
|
Moderator |
I'll be the odd man out, I like the scallops. Whether it works or not will depend on the final product. To my eye the barrel band section looks just an rch on the long side. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I love to experiment myself so I feel your pain. If you leave the scallops the sharp corners will surely rip a finger if you drag across it too hard. To alleviate this problem you'd have to file the corners of the scallops down almost to the barrel which would in turn destroy the whole concept. I think I'd leave them out. Otherwise very good machining on an ambitious project. "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". | |||
|
| one of us |
If necessary why couldn't a new crown simply be recessed? The French did them on MAS rifles without any issues I'm aware of and they wouldn't need to be so deeply recessed as on the MAS'..............................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
|
| one of us |
To be honest with you Butch, I don't think it is a good idea. I am 100% in sync with Steve on this, as I am just about all of the time-the man has worlds of experience in the high end custom gun field. To me it looks like something someone does to be "cute" or different, just for the sake of being different. I know it gets poo-poo'd when I regularly say this, but for a firearm to be great it must follow artistic principles. When folks venture outside the bounds of these principles the overall piece suffers. For years I have thought about this exact site you made, as I am sure gunmakers have for the past 200 years or so. There is a reason that you don’t see fine antiques with this banded site on them. Oh, there are some out there, just not many. Pieces of work that are made to be cute or different are the ones we look at 30 years later and chuckle. Things like the huge roll-over combs, white plastic inlays, angled forearm tips, etc., etc. are what I am talking about. I can also remember a ½ octagon, ½ round barrel with the round part on the breech end and the octagon on the muzzle end. Someone thought it was cute but if you notice it has not been accepted by the masses. Just as your site was not adopted when it was first tried back in the 1800's. BUT…people still buy the old cheesy rifles from the ‘50’s and love to shoot them. If this is what YOU like then you need to do it. After all, that is what custom guns is about, right? You asked for honest opinions, so here is one. | |||
|
| One of Us |
BUTCH: I've let this go longer than I should have. I asked a simple question about the thickness of the barrel band and all I got was critizism about the scallops. My daughter was visiting with me in the shop when it came to this part of machining. She liked it so I machined the whole part that way. Clowdis is right, it is too sharp and will cut you, this I explained to my daughter after the machining. The intent was never to keep the scallops but to machine it as a standard barrel band. With that, thank you to those who did answer my original question and to those that "jumped the gun", shame on you. Butch, I think you should start a new thread with a picture of your sight so that it doesnt get confused with the dreaded SCALLOPS!  _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
| One of Us |
Your thread has not affected what I want to do or the criticism for either of our projects. It is food for thought. I am in the process of machining another this weekend. I think the sight will look fine, the barrel swivel bracket and rear sight may be the real challenge. My lightbulb has not come on yet with an idea for them. Butch | |||
|
one of us |
Both of you have done some excellent machining. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
|
| One of Us |
Forrest: Thank you for the kind words and not rushing to judgment. I've been keeping track of the hours I have in this one project and I am real surprised at the amount of time put into it, and how many more there is to go. Learning a new machine has added a little extra I'm sure! Butch: one thing at a time (unless the light bulb comes on  )The sight your making is spot on, and I apploud your gift of being able to use an EDM for a final product. Keep us posted..._____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
One of Us |
I think it looks cool. Don't delete scallops make them deeper in back. Transpose the back scallops to the front of the band and cut the same radius in front as well. Then on the top flat the front a decision will need to be made as to delete the top scallop or have it project forward then radius up to the top of the sight ramp. I think go with the scallop theme thruout. In fact if you pull those back scallops deeper it will give a more sleek look, especially when you swamp the ramp. I've always wanted to do one like you're doing here. It's Art and Art is suppose to evoke emotion. How it feels, How it looks. Creation for the sake of creation is the essance of this craft. Without it we'd all have the same everything. Timan | |||
|
| One of Us |
"I've been keeping track of the hours I have in this one project and I am real surprised at the amount of time put into it, and how many more there is to go." Just wait 'till you start the polishing! ACGG Life Member, since 1985 | |||
|
| One of Us |
That is why I am doing another so that I won't have near the nasty tool marks. How many hours? Probably 18 hours in each one plus the EDM time. Butch | |||
|
| one of us |
Timan- No one has said not to create or be creative. Far from it. As I have said many times before, it is my policy not to answer the question, "Do you think my new XXX is pretty?" I have this policy because very few people really want to know what others think. But I know Butch and believe him when he said he wanted honest feedback. The whole idea that "Art is art" does not mean that everything is good. As stated in my post above, someone will like anything. That does not mean it is good art. Good art is timeless and is on full display when Mr. Petrov graciously takes time to show us timeless masterpeices that are a century old. The masterpieces follow sound artistic theory. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I know,and i havent even got to that point yet! The tool marks are there but not deep...This is where a whole quarter of hand fileing from school comes into play. We must have lost 6 students during this time of learning. It is a part of the job that i do enjoy though, crank up the stereo and get lost in it! _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
One of Us |
I guess I don't mind the scallops myself... ven though I prefer a plain & simple approch... sorry for the poor pic ( an older pic, not taken to specifically show the sight ) this is mine... this is my rear sight... | |||
|
| One of Us |
srtrax, great looking work. Do not worry about doing something out of the ordinary. Your concept reminds me a great deal of a scalloped round front sight band and a matching barrel band sling swivel stud created by Maurice Ottmar. Maurice gave it to me and I gave it to Jim Dubell as I thought he would put it to better use than it sitting in a drawer. I really like what you have done, keep up the good work. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Customstox: I Thank you for that! I almost made this a round band on the swivel and front sight, thinking it would look good on an octogon barrel. I threw this picture up on a question about the thickness of the band and never even thought about the scallops when i posted this. It was more for fun as the daughter likes to come out and see what is going on out there in the shop. (one of two of my real pride and joys) Anyway, this has turned into a real surprise to me, and well i've even got a few laughs out of it. Would you happen to have a picture of Maurcies sight you could post. HUMMMMM... _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
|
| one of us |
Butch- Please post some pics when you get the rifle complete. You may could make it all flow together if you do it right. I think it will be hard to do without looking too busy, but that is just me. I am very interested in seeing the finished piece. “Flow†is critical in any piece of art and often gets overlooked. Many folks get excited over doo-dads and accessories. The people y’all have heard me refer to as “Brownell’s Cowboys†are case in point. They pore through the catalog looking for the latest NECG component that can be added to their next project. The coolness of a rifle is judged by how much iron is soldered to the barrel, as opposed to how it looks as a whole. A good custom gun needs to be created in accordance with the adage purported in Plymouth Barracuda ads from the late ‘60’s: No fat, no lean, only beef in all the right places. If you can pull that off with your site on the rifle then everything will be good! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Marc, I made another this weekend and it is now at the EDM shop. Probably be a couple weeks before I see it again. I understand what you are saying. I think that a person should see the rifle as a whole first. After that you can find the neat little things. No part should overpower the other. SDH, I surface ground all the octagon sides and then lapped them. No tool marks. The band will be .020 thick. I hope it is not too thin. Butch | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
