Hey guys, I don't know if many of you know this, but the burgess bolt knobs were a bit on the special side. He told me once that he shaped the knob itself to make it easier for engravers to checker. I'm not sure how he did that, but was wondering if anybody has ever compared a Burgess knob to the others available out there and can see the difference?

or has anybody on here checkered multiple knobs and any of them Burgess? notice a difference?

Red

The rounder knob might make it a LITTLE easier to checker..not enough to notice.

Don't know for sure how Mr. Miller does his checkered bolt knobs, but I believe Brownell's once carried cast steel bolt handles with raised areas on the knob for checkering. I assume the final result would look very much like the picture of the Miller rifle.

22WRF, the rifle pictured in your second photo is IMO absolutely superb. Can you tell us more about it?

Dago, my apologies for the thread hijack.

-nosualc

I can tell you that the photo was made by a very talented photographer named Ron Dehn and contained in a book written by a very talented writer named Tom Turpin. I took the photo from his book entitled Mastery of Wood and Metal.

David Miller and his partner Curt Crum live and work in Tucson Arizona. They produce some very very fine rifles, and of course they charge accordingly. The photo is more than likely that of a highly modified 1909 Argentine Mauser set up for non scope use. The fact that the rear bridge has been shortened would indicate that the rifle is set up for some sort of longer magnum type cartridge.

That over the top checkering job is frickin bad ass!!!!

Thanks for all the responses guys!!! I will reply to all the PM's today as well. I wish now that I had gotten Tom to explain a bit more to me how he came up with the exact shape of his knob. Those that knew him know that he was a perfectionist with things and had very specific reasons for everything he did.

22wrf, post more pics!

Red

For reference: Original Oberndorf.

An observation on the Miller rifle! Since the bridge has been cut back, the rear of the extractor is not captured by the bridge.

When the bolt handle is lifted, the extractor want to rotate...Doesn't take much to result in a big time jam. I'll bet Miller filed in a generous cam in the bridge to control the extractor.

A longer extractor, of course, would be the best bet. Jim Wisner used to make them, not sure if he is still doing so.

This " critque" is only meant as a heads up for anyone planning to do such modification

isn't the front of the extractor sitting in the front ring's lug way?....how can it rotate with the bolt. and as it comes out of the front ring it is already in the bridge's lug way, isn't it?
as far as i can tell by looking at all of my mausers, there doesn't have to be any "cam" filed anywhere. is th "cam" you speak of, more or less a "reciever ramp" at the front of the bridge to guide the back end of the extractor into the bridge's lug way?.... if that's what you're thinking, you don't need any of that, at all. besides, correct me if i'm wrong... the bottom the the extractor sits on the rail at the bottom of the lug way, with the front of the extractor captured in the reciever and sitting on this rail, it can't twist when a stubborn case is cammed out.....
i remember the extended extractors... they were for looks,not function, IIRC. i have also seen a block of mild steel silver soldered to the end of the extractor to extend it back to meet the bridge, again just for looks, the back side of the block is shaped to sit just off the bolt body and the end of the extractor is dressed of square so that the two pieces joint good. allot less expensive than a specialy made extractor and when jeweled, the joint pretty much disappears.
i suppose now your gonna say the cost of making that tiny block and soldering on the extractor is probably higher than just buying a custom made extractor...jeez, that's getting ridiculous.

Burgess bolt handle on a CZ550:

quote:

Originally posted by merlinron:
isn't the front of the extractor sitting in the front ring's lug way?....how can it rotate with the bolt. and as it comes out of the front ring it is already in the bridge's lug way, isn't it?
as far as i can tell by looking at all of my mausers, there doesn't have to be any "cam" filed anywhere. is th "cam" you speak of, more or less a "reciever ramp" at the front of the bridge to guide the back end of the extractor into the bridge's lug way?.... if that's what you're thinking, you don't need any of that, at all. besides, correct me if i'm wrong... the bottom the the extractor sits on the rail at the bottom of the lug way, with the front of the extractor captured in the reciever and sitting on this rail, it can't twist when a stubborn case is cammed out.....
i remember the extended extractors... they were for looks,not function, IIRC. i have also seen a block of mild steel silver soldered to the end of the extractor to extend it back to meet the bridge, again just for looks, the back side of the block is shaped to sit just off the bolt body and the end of the extractor is dressed of square so that the two pieces joint good. allot less expensive than a specialy made extractor and when jeweled, the joint pretty much disappears.
i suppose now your gonna say the cost of making that tiny block and soldering on the extractor is probably higher than just buying a custom made extractor...jeez, that's getting ridiculous.

Obviously you've never seen the way an extractor can "torque". I have! The extractor is supposed to be long enough to be captured in the rail at the bridge.

In even normal extraction, the claw will tend to remain stationary and friction at the collar and at the tail can easily spring the tail up...then "Bump" into the bridge.

AS I mentioned, I'll bet Miller created a cam on the upper part on the extractor rail , front of the bridge to control the tendency.

Don't understand your analality..just trying to save someone a little grief. You don't want to listen... doesn't mean an airborne sex act to me!

duane,
your right, i can't say that i've ever seen an extractor twist that badly. i can say that in thirty or so yrs. of owning mauser based hunting guns, i've never subjected them to that kind of torture. the mauser's extraction system is pretty good and if a case is so stuck that it cranks an extractor out shape that bad, i'll take it a gunsmith and let him remove the case. that said, we don't use our guns in war conditions and if a case sticks that badly, we're not going to die because of it, so we can just walk back to our car and go home. if it's a DGR and the case sticks bad enough to have to rely on the design feature's we're discussing, you're probably dinner anyway and extractor being in the bridge isn't going to save you. in reality, that analogy can be carried over to battle conditions as well. that's why i say the extractor being in the bridge is for looks and "correctness"
by original design, the length of the extractor also kept junk from getting caught between it's end and the bridge, blocking the bolt from opening during battle, as well preventing junk that might accumulate in that little notch from being pumped into the action every time it's cycled. if you examine the relationship between the extractor and the front ring( which i'm sure you have!) the top of the extract will come in contact with the top of the lug way for an inch or so. this length of contact will keep the extractor sqaure with the case and aligned with the bolt bolt during first few degrees of bolt rotation, when it's got to work the hardest to perform extraction of a stuck case. this contact is made just as the extractor starts moving back from the extraction ramp and continues as the bolt backs up on the ramp and the top of the extractor slides on the top of the lugway. that contact at the top of the lug way is enough to keep the extractor aligned with the bolt until a stuck case is has been camed free. although the extractor in the pic is short of sitting in the bridge, i really don't think there is any reason to need it sitting in the bridge as it would be in a normal action. as it is, it may not be ..."correct"... but i'm reasonably sure it is as funtional as original for it's intended use.
also, there isn't any anality involved, i just call'em like i see'em and saw a cheap, BS sales pitch, trying to put question in people's minds about someone else's work.... also known as a............cheap shot....... have a nice day

quote:

Originally posted by merlinron:
although the extractor in the pic is short of sitting in the bridge, i really don't think there is any reason to need it sitting in the bridge as it would be in a normal action. as it is, it may not be ..."correct"... but i'm reasonably sure it is as funtional as original for it's intended use.
also, there isn't any anality involved, i just call'em like i see'em and saw a cheap, BS sales pitch, trying to put question in people's minds about someone else's work.... also known as a............cheap shot....... have a nice day

Duane is far from the first person who has questioned why Miller would leave the extractor short on such an otherwise fine rifle.

No one has said that the extractor "will" hang-up, only that it could hang-up. These things seem to always happen at the wrong time, like when a buffalo is stomping your behind and your rifle is full of dirt and grass. You are correct, the short extractor will not be a problem 99.9% of the time, but the best built DG rifles have a great amount of time and effort invested in eliminating that last 00.1%.....

Melliron: Must be cold in WI or you're running out of cheese. I'm telling you for a fact that I have seen three DGR's with such a condition...(Two were one's I built).


This is not a cheap shot and I'm not in the business of selling extractors...read the GD post. A heads up!!! That's what it is and I've also offered a solution IF such a thing occurs. And another thing! I've OWNED AND WORKED on Mausers for over Forty (40) years...get yourself a little more experience.

I consider David a friend and a top notch maker...one of the best and porobably the best business man among all builders.

Now Melliron..move on to something important!

I have carried Mauser rifles as protection tools while working alone in some of th most remote and densely populated Grizzly country in northern and western Canada, for 45 years. I am NOT a gunsmith, but, I packed these rifles every day for months on end and in all weather.

I think Duane is correct here and, having done business with him, had other highly regarded gunmakers voluntarily tell me just how much help he has been to them and having found him a courteous and nice guy, I cannot believe anyone would make an assinine comment like that. You owe Duane an apology, stop being a total dickhead.