Hello,

I just wanted to gauge other opinions/thoughts on the best type of blueing for custom rifle builds and why? I just dont know which way to go?


Thanks

A good quality rust blue. It looks sharp and will outlast a "hot" blue.

Some on those "other" forums consider "Custom" on anything with a new barrel and stock (think Savage) so The field is wide open. Here, wood stocked rifles rule and a decent rust blue is the way to go.

Best is what you like better. Most durable is rust blue. Quickest is hot salt blue and that doesn't look bad; level of polish is everything; too much is a bad thing.

Honestly, the question isn't which type of blue, but how shiny do you want the rifle.

Rust blue, when done right, is a semi-gloss satin black. The process doesn't really lend itself to high polish, or dull matte.

Hot blue can be anything from a bead blast finish to the super smooth Smith and Wesson finish.

In terms of durability, I believe it to be a wash. I've seen hard use rifles with both types, and neither seemed to be hindered or benefited by either. All were in good, rust free shape with honest wear and tear. Just find a reputable place to have either done. Both can be done shoddily or done well.

My preference is rust blue for the deep black satin finish it has. It just looks good against any wood stock.

Jeremy

The primary reason that rust bluing is preferred for custom rifles is that it costs four times more than salt bluing; therefore it must be better.

Imo the high polish/matchless hot blue finishes detract from the overall look of a high end custom.

quote:

Imo the high polish/matchless hot blue finishes detract from the overall look of a high end custom.

Yep plus it is a royal pain to polish that glossy I love the S&W finish on their revolvers. Just never cared for it on a rifle.

Just to start an argument with Tom and Aaron, knowing full well that I'm going to win because I'm older, uglier, grumpier and more arrogant than they are.

The two toughest finishes are first, a matchless hot blue and after that a good, deep rust blue. Rust blue for some reason resists abrasion a lot better than a grit polished hot blue. But a good, matchess, mirror finish hot blue will stand up the best. There are no tops to the craters or grit lines to wear off on a matchess blue and water sheets off of it almost instantly. I'm no metallurgist, but smearing the steel around to achieve that mirror finish also seems to harden the surface a bit. Or maybe that little point is all on the top of my little, pointed haid!

I don't care which one is prettier. If I was pretty, people still wouldn't like me. So who cares. LOL

I learned from a knife maker that the higher the polish the more resistant it is to corrosion. Pores are smaller/closed and the burnishing effect of higher grits(or god forbid polishing wheels)doesn't "cut" the steel. Wear resistance is is also better.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
I learned from a knife maker that the higher the polish the more resistant it is to corrosion. Pores are smaller/closed and the burnishing effect of higher grits(or god forbid polishing wheels)doesn't "cut" the steel. Wear resistance is is also better.

To this day I sort of marvel when I see old Mauser actions that were polished to a mirror finish and left that way on purpose (un-blued and un-plated), who's finish is still reasonably brilliant and rust free. While the barrel attached to it which was polished to about a 320 finish and blued is rusted all to hell and pitted. To say nothing of the stocks that are damned near rotted off.

Chile 1912 & Venezuela 1935?

quote:

To this day I sort of marvel when I see old Mauser actions that were polished to a mirror finish and left that way on purpose (un-blued and un-plated), who's finish is still reasonably brilliant and rust free.

I always wondered if the hardening of the action had something to do with that. Anyone know?

The case hardening process imparts a higher carbon content to the receiver and bolt and does resist corrosion better than plain steel. A good polishing and burnishing helps even more.

Rust protection can be enhanced by sealing the polished or blued steel with a drying oil such as BLO or polyurethane thinned with mineral spirits. The drying oil is wiped on in lieu of petroleum oil, then wiped off until the surface won't fingerprint. The oil can be tinted with black artist's oil color for a deeper black. After 24 hrs the steel can be baked at between 250 and 300 deg F. This hardens it in the pores. After it cools apply a couple of coats of paste wax.

Bob
www.rustblue.com

Yes just as suspected. I was leaning towards rust blueing for a couple of customs about to commence.

Remember that no primary US Military arm (nor any other country's for that matter) was blued until the Trapdoor Springfields in 1870; they were all left bright. (No hate mail; yes England blued the Enfield rifle-musket and we bought lots of them for the Civil War). And they don't tend to rust as they were polished very smoothly. and the locks were case hardened.
Bobster's comment on the oiling of rust bluing; I use my poly/tung oil stock finish on rust bluing and it seals the pores very well. Not built up on the surface of course. Wiped into the metal.

I know a couple customers that use plain old car wax or floor wax on their bluing the same as people do on browned, black powder guns. They do it every year just before hunting season. You can't even tell it has been waxed and it seems to work just fine. It doesn't rub off like oil and water just beads up on the surface and sheets off.

After the last steam/boil/carding I do it again one final time and then oil the parts while they're till warm. After a week or so, I wipe the parts down and apply wax. I've been using Renaissance Wax, works very well.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The primary reason that rust bluing is preferred for custom rifles is that it costs four times more than salt bluing; therefore it must be better.

Unless you do it yourself. Then it is much, much cheaper...

quote:

Originally posted by montea6b:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The primary reason that rust bluing is preferred for custom rifles is that it costs four times more than salt bluing; therefore it must be better.

Unless you do it yourself. Then it is much, much cheaper...

If you only do a couple dozen guns per year, then rust bluing is MUCH MUCH MUCH CHEAPER ! A really good rust blue setup can be done for under $300 and basically takes up a very tiny footprint. There are also no storage and disposal worries with rust bluing.

Hot bluing demands a huge outlay in chemicals, tanks, fuel and mostly, space. I think Brownells charges around $2,000 for one of their bluing setups and back when I was using propane we used to burn about 5 pounds per hour at $1 per pound so running the tanks for 6 hours cost about $30 plus usually a pound or two of carryout salt at about $4 per pound. Here in Canada space is about $13 per foot triple net so if you have to rent space you can figure the space needed for a bluing operation will cost you about $400 CAD per month.

You have to do a LOT of bluing to make hot bluing pay.

Last but not least in Melonite or PQP. The most corrosion resistant by orders of magnitude but not a good choice for a trophy gun. The finish resembles a satin rust blue.

Rust blue every time - particularly for classic hunting rifles - Mauser, Mannlicher etc. Also custom Winchester or Sako.

Ion bond done over a high polish can look really nice, and there is nothing tougher