Hello,
On a Ruger factory barrel, which is chambered in 25-06, if you cut the threads off, would there be enough room left to re-ream for 257 Roberts?

Also, is the Roberts a legitimate short action round? I looked at the prints and it is slightly longer than the 308 Win class rounds, but shorter than the 30-06 rounds. Would a standard action be better suited to the Roberts?

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Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

That is an old debate. I believe they once referred to it as the "three inch" .257 Roberts. Remington introduced the chambering in 34', I think, and it was and is very similar to Ned Roberts original design sans the shoulder andgle. Based on a 7x57 Mauser which is indeed in the middle between the short 08 case and the standard 06'. With that said, most of the gun writers refer to it as at its best in a custom short action rifle, particularly the Improved Version. For what advantage is to be had over the .25-06' in a Long Action(especially the Improved version).

The pragmatist on the other hand bring up the three inch .257 Roberts and say it can't reach its potential in a SA rifle(except for possibly the new Win 70 Classic SA). From what I've read the Rem 700 SA is too short for it to seat heavier hunting bullets without compromising powder capacity. On the other hand there are those who say Long Action .257 Roberts is not ideal either because you can't seat the bullet out far enough, especially in a factory rifle with a long throat, to be close enough to the lands for optimum accuracy.

I like the chambering and own a Remington Stainless Classic Long Action .257 Roberts that I picked up last year. It's a fun, mild, and a flat shooter from my humble estimation. The Long Action has'nt proved to be a handicap, however, the rifle does'nt inspire me and is hence to be made into a custom .25-06'.

When I finish my other pet projects, a 1911, the .25-06', and the .375 H&H, I may just look for one of the new Winchester SAs and rebarrel it to a .257 AI. No real benefit and certainly not practical but I want one;-).

Regards, Matt.

[This message has been edited by Matt in Virginia (edited 10-19-2001).]

I seriously doubt that it would be practical to chop a .25-06 barrel short enough to rechamber to .257 Roberts, but all would depend on the barrel's taper immediatly in front of the receiver ring. An untapered barrel would simply have to have it's barrel theads extended, while a barrel with a quick taper would run out of threading area pretty quickly.

The Roberts has been built on many "short" action bolts, but it is at a disadvantage with some of them. Ruger's original run of M77 Roberts was built on their long action. I don't know which action they use now.

If you use shorter bullets, you can get by with a short action Roberts. I used to have one built on a German-made short Mauser marketed by Herter's and it did fine (117 grain Sierra boat tails could be seated out properly), but I think its magazine was longer than the 2.75 to 2.85" you'll find in Sakos, Remingtons, etc. The Winchester 70 medium action, as I understand it, has a somewhat longer magazine and would be well-suited to the Roberts (or 5.6 x 57, 6mm Remington, 7 x 57, 8x 57, 9 x 57 or any other cartridge based on the original 57 mm Mauser case). That being said, I have no probelms with my .244 in a Remington 722, but then it shoots nothing longer than a 90 grain bullet.

The .257 Roberts Improved will give you a potent package in a short action, if that's what you're after.

I have a med length Ruger 77 that I will rebarrel next month. It will be my light deer, walking varmiter. Its a 22-250 now but will either be a 243 ai, 257 ai, or a 260 rem. I am a little worried about the length issue of the 257 I know I'd be pushing the limits but it sounds like other people have dealt with the same issue. I want a pretty short throat to help with the varmit wieght bullets, in trade for a little top end velocity with the heavier bullets. I don't want a barrell longer than 24 inches.
Any sujestions or experiences welcome.

Funny how we have double standards and conflicting ideas. The 257 Rob works fine both ways. I have a long action Pre64 M-70 in 257. Shot out a Rem M-722 (short action). In retrospect long doesn't make much sense to me. There is a big gap in the front of the mag box, wasted bolt throw length. True it shoots well but I could be stuffing 25-06s in that rifle, with a different barrel. Instead of trying to push my 257 I could already be there.
I see folks getting all a twitter over pushing the bullet into the powder space. Why??? Don't we do that regurarly with other cartridges like the 264??? We push the shoulder foreward and reduce shoulder angles to increase powder space, then complain that the bullet takes up a few grains of it. Confusing to me. Why not shoot a short throat, short action, 257. Accept it for what it is. Load some 100 grain bullets and go kill a buck???? That is what it does best. If you want a 25-06 buy one in the first place. To me the 257 is a short action light weight "go to" hunting rifle. It does not shine as a long action long barrel, heavier, high velocity zapper. Just my take on it after two rifles, one long, one short and about 20 dead hogs and deer.

I like Scot's thinking, especially if you are buying a new rifle or making up one on a "modern" action. The only excuse I can come up with for building a Roberts on a long action is if you are trying to come up with a Nostalgia Gun along the lines of a classic Griffin and Howe sporter built around a Springfield action. I'll likely do that but I am a crank of the first water. Sensible people would use a M70 SA and Nosler PT 100 grainers. If you can't kill something with that, you need a bigger bore.

Hello,
Well here is the deal. I can probably get for a little horsetrading, the Ruger25-06 barrel and a wooden Winchester stock for a Win Long Action, Mod 70, late manufacturer.

So all I would have to do, is get a Win 70 action, cut off the Ruger threads, Rethread for Win 70, and inlet the stock for the new barrel taper. Only problem is that there is not enough room to re-chamber for the '06 round, once the new threads are cut, so I needed something shorter. The Roberts came to mind. A lot of work, a little gunsmith money, and maybe have a fine rifle out of it.

Sound like a plan? To my way of thinking, it all depens on how much space is left on the original barrel shank. It did seem fairly long, so maybe...

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Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

[This message has been edited by JoeM (edited 10-20-2001).]

Joe M

If you plan to load 87 gr bullets and lighter for varmits the medium length action works very well for the 257 Roberts. You wont have to seat the bullets so deep they take up powder space.

If however you plan to hunt game and use 100 gr bullets and heavier I have had much better performance with the 30-06 length actions. Heres a little trick that you dont read about. When you use the 30-06 length action you can throat the chamber a little longer than SAMMI specs and gain quite a bit of performance with the heavier bullets seated out. I generally throat mine to allow me to seat the bullet one caliber deep and be about .010 to .020 off the lands.

The 257 Roberts is a terrific whitetail cartridge. I shoot 100 grain Sierras and have made some fantastic one shot kills in my little Featherweight Model 70.

I have a 257 Roberts AI on a 98 Mauser action loaded with 100 gr Nosler partitions it will chronograph an honest 3400 fps with consistant 3/4 min angle. It shoots laser flat and is just devastating on white tails and mulies.

Joe, it would make more sence to build it on a Mauser action which was designed for 57mm cases from which the 257 Roberts was derived. If you want a short action 25cal I would go with a 25 Souper which is a 308 necked down to 25cal.

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When in doubt, empty the magazine.

Joe M,
The Robts is a 06 lenth round, for a correctly set up rifle...It will work in a 243 lenth action, but it is at a disadvantage with the 120 bullets being deeply set...Most shooters changed the box back in the good old days.

If I had a good 25-06 and I wanted a 257 Robts. I would put less powder in my 25-06 for the same effect.....the difference in bolt throw, action lenth etc. is nominal any way you cut it.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

It is worthwhile to note that the threads on the M70 and the Ruger 77 are the same 1"x16tpi. I don't have a ruger handy at the moment to check the headspace measurment. In any case if the tenon is long a spacer would work if short the shoulder can be relocated. But to answer your question the Ruger barrel has a substantial shank so has plenty of room to set back. Regards, Bill.

Bill: would you happen to know the shank dia and thread size on a Browning A Bolt?

Bill,
Thanks for the info. Thought all the gun companies used their own threading standard. With this in mind, I might just let the creation be a 25-06.

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Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

The .257 would be ideal in a intermediate length Mauser action, I'm making one with a 1936 Mexican M98 small ring short action rifle, 18" barrel Manlicher stock.

One advantage is that the standard .257 roberts will retain more of it's published velocity in a 22" barrel than what a .25-06 will.

JK,
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying but surly your not saying a 257 will outperform a 25-06 in any barrel lenth...the 257 is just incapable of that...It may be more efficient and better utilize its powder but never will it catch up in velocity to the 25-06.....the 06 case holds more powder than the 7x57 case and the big dog sleeps on the poarch every time....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, let's say you are building a 18" barrel carbine, you have a choice of 257 Weatherby, or .257 Roberts. Which would you choose?