Believe it or not, one of the BEST lists for youth sized firearms is on THIS site.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/22ap.htm

But of course THEY are protesting it....But take good info where you can get it.

I have had a tought about this to.
I think a Sako.222 or a Sako 7x33 would be perfect.
SMall nice lightwth quality rifles.

Chop the stok so it fits. then extend it when they grow.
I mean really, what does it matter that the stock will look strange within some years.
Its much more important that they hit with the gun and feel confortable with it.

I doubth that the .308 is near ideal for children, i would say i mostly cases is the recoil to hard.

By the way, chop the barrel at the same time, its no funny for them using a rifle they cant handle cause its to heavy.

Regards H�kan

Unless you reload your own youth loads the 308 Win is too much recoil for a small person. 243 Win is much better choice. Hodgdon publishes youth loads for the 308 Win.

Good advice on cutting the stock and the barrel. 20" barrel should do fine. Use a new - very soft recoil pad - Decelerator type. Also get a light weight scope with ample eye relief. 4X compact Leupold comes to mind.

Or another thought. Get a NEF handi rifle single shot to start them off with and save the Rugers for later.

Good advice so far. My advice would be to look for a takeoff first, then you can whittle away at it. Of course you could also do that to the current stock and buy a new one when they grow out of this one.

If you wish to save this stock and just add the piece later, my advice is to drill a couple of 1/4"- 3/8" pilot holes first before you cut it and use pins in them later on when you wish to put the piece back on.

From my limited experience[two kids] more important than what rifle for a kid is what scope.My son had a lot of trouble shooting deer when young. he tried two rifles both cut down to fit him,neither worked very well.He is grown now and a good shot on game.Next my daughter, a small 12yr old started her with a handirifle in 223. the same problems as the boy,cant find the game in the scope, or can't hit it.I built her a model 7rem with a thumbhole stock made to her size no compromize about being too small when she grew..this helped solve the finding the deer in the scope problem,but she was still missing.She had a 4x redfield widefield on the mod7 .In sheer frustration trying to figure what was wrong I put a red dot pistol scope on the rifle for her. WOW she immediately started shooting mimute of deer out to 100yds.She enjoyed shooting it no struggling trying tofind her target or hit it.This was 5yrs ago and she has made good heart lung hits on every deer she has shot at with this scope.Now if I tease her about taking her kiddy scope off her rifle and putting a real scope on it her answer is allways no way I love my red dot scope.

I've been thinking of this as well. I have two youngsters, a mom with a small frame and a nephew that would like to start hunting.

The rifle for Mom was easy, she got my Rem. 600 .308 with reduced loads. Since I've got time to develop other rifles, I'm looking to cut down the stocks on a couple of others. My thought was to drill two pilot holes about 3/4" past where I plan to cut the stock, then countersink them about 1/8" + the thickness of a bolt head from the end of the stock. (Making sure not to put the holes where the existing pad is attached or where a pad would go on the cut-off stock.) This should make it easier to reinstall the piece. Next planned step is to use masking tape along the cut line and cut the stock with a bandsaw that is fitted with a very thin blade. Once that is done, I'll install the bolts and sand the stock down, if required, to minimize how visible the joining line is and re-finish the stock with the piece installed. Guess that could be done when you re-install it as the kids grow, your choice. I plan on putting finish on both sides (ends) of the cut to try and keep moisture equal. I'm also looking into different size recoil pads. Starting with very reduced loads and a thinner pad. As they grow, replacing the pad with thicker pads and increasing loads until they are big enough to handle it.

Just my long winded thought process. Any critiques are much appreciated.

Wow! You've all given me alot to think about. Thinking about my daughter's ability to handle the little M-20 (410), I'd have to say that that - as a package including weight/recoil/bulk - this is about max. As it happens my 7 year old son is already 80#, and by the time he's 10 he may be ready for the watered down .308......even without surgerizing the stock.

But Rachel - and her cousin Ryan - are small for age. The more I think about this the more I like the NEF Handi-rifle idea. LOP is about ideal. Moreover the gun's overall dimensions/bulk are about like the old M-20......small hands can get hold of the forearm. I ran some recoil calculations for .243 assuming 85 gr partitions at around 2850 fps or so.......seems just a tad more than .410, but should be OK. The 30-30 load equivalent will run about 50% more recoil energy.

Guess the other option is the 60 gr. NP in .223, but I'd sure like the extra horsepower of the .243. We can also practice with some 60-75 gr .243 bullets.

There's also something to be said for the single shot break-open gun as it may help to facilitate safe handling practices and marksmanship skills.

Finally, Khornet's comments concerning optics really hit home. I've noticed the difficulty the kids have dealing with scope reticles, eye relief, keeping the eye centered, etc. A dot system seems like a brilliant (no pun intended) idea, and may even help keep the weight down.

Again, thanks. This is a wonderful forum. I really appreciate all of your carefully considered comments.

Sam