About a year ago a guest posed the question as to who the next generation of up and comers in the custom gun trade would be. Unfortunately (and to the disgust of myself, SDH and a few others) that post degenerated into a name calling match between a few "of us". I've recently been in contact with Tom Burgess, am still looking for an Ottmar that is perfect (at least in my eyes), and do not (yet) have a Goens. This got me thinking who will replace these men in the future. One name I'd never heard of until becoming a member here is Mark Penrod. I realize the old masters can never truly be replaced-but who will we turn to for metal, wood, and engraving? So I would like to breathe new life into a once promising topic. Who are the up and coming artists? Names, phone# and e-mail addresses would be great so we might have a point of contact if interested.

nyrifleman,

John Bolliger - 1775 North Elk Road, Pocatello - Idaho 83204 -
In 1992 John Bolliger of Mountain Riflery Inc.'s 375 H&H Grizzle Rifle sold
for $225000.
I think his work is second to none.

David Miller - 3131 E. Greenlee Rd., Tucson, Arizona 85716
Might be the best custom gunmaker in the World

Frank Wells - 7521 E. Fairmont Pl,. Tucson, Arizona 85715

Gary Goudy - 263 Hedge Road, Menlo Park, California 94025

Darcy Echols - 164 W. 580 S., Providence, UT 84332; (801) 753-2367

And many more.
In my opinion the best custom gunwork is done today.

Roland

nyrifleman,

Very good question.......No great question!

I am by no means an expert here but, it appears to me that the older generation of craftsmen were by necessity required to fabricate or highly modify much more of the military actions, shrouds, scope mounts, bottom metal, magazine boxes and general pieces parts not to mention fixtures needed to build a rifle than is required today. Not that there are not those capable of doing so amoung the younger smiths or that this type of crafting of a special individual one of a kind item/part doesn't go on but, I get the feeling it is not the norm. The availability of CNC manufactured parts has replaces quite a bit of it I believe. I guess the catch is that this type of hands on experience and years/decades of making/modifying items from scratch is damn hard to replace. I hope that there knowledge has been passed along....

A question was posed to me this past January in Reno....

"Who's going to be making bottom metal for everyone when Ted Blackburn closes up shop?"

I just re-read my post and thought I would add one slight modification before I started one of the flame wars the general AR community is so fond of....though this may not help. In the previous paragraph I am NOT repeat NOT critisizing or belittling skills and ability of ANY of our current gunsmiths nor am I trying to say they are some how "less" than those that came before them. Rather I am pointing out each has a different frame of reference as well as knowledge and experience base from which to draw upon while going about there work. Like Roland1 above I believe the best is now!


Regards,
Dave

Roland- Great names all. After the SCI convention I've decided I cannot possibly live happily until I've added a Bolliger (270 WSM?) to my battery. However the names you mentioned are established gunmakers with established reputations, no? How about some who are not so well known, but exhibit quality workmanship? I'll have to take friendly exception with Miller as the best in the world however. Living on reputation to a degree?

David C-one of the makers mentioned by Roland said the same thing to me not two days ago. The metalsmith in question was not Blackburn however, but Tom Burgess.

nyrifleman you have a PM.

Dave

nyrifleman, give a call to Kevin's Sporting Goods in Tallahassee, Fl for the Ottmar. Don't know if he is still dabbling with them but a few years back he probably had the nicest and largest collection of Ottmar rifles on earth. Don't know about the Goens, good luck.

quote:

posted by Roland1: In my opinion the best custom gunwork is done today.

Ditto!

DigitalDan-Thanks for the lead. I'll look him up this week.

For what its worth I am very impressed with Patrick Holehan's work. Met him at the SCI Convention in January. Loved the 270 WSM he had on display. Loved his big bores even more. Although I've not seen any of his work Shane Thompson is gathering a reputation as a quality smith as well. If anyone is interested I can post phone numbers for both.

nyrifleman ,

Besides Darcy Echols, I own multiple rifles from all the makers mentioned above and others, my recommendation go visit John Bolliger, I am fortunate that I can compare the beauty, functionality and accuracy at first hand because I own them; a John Bolliger is my first choice.
I really need to contact Mr., Echols or visit him, he is highly recommended by some trustworthy members I believe on this board.
Regarding upcoming talent, a fresh breeze is always welcome.

nyrifleman, If you like a masterpiece in your collection .270 WSM, I am sure John Bolliger can help you out.

Roland

Roland-Bolliger had a 270 WSM at SCI. Unfortunately I didn't have the 10k to buy it! I did take pics though. Lovely rifles.

nyrifleman ,

Please, share the .270's pics if all possible.

Roland

Roland-I do not know how to post them here. Any help there? Or PM me with an e-mail addy and I'll send em to you.
Doug

Roland, I would put all of those men above the level of up and coming. They are up near or at the top of the heap. Duane Weibe, Steve Heilmann and a few others belongs in the group or at the head of it.

As far as "up and comers", I tend to think of younger folks like Shane Thompson, Joe Smithson, Mike Ullman and others. Rookies so to speak, with incredible skills.

One of the best Ottmar rifles I have ever seen is available at Hallowells site. It was the first Guns magazine "best of show" award. Maurice was at our table and did not want to win it as he did not want to give a speech. He won and just said thanks. Big speach for him.

BTW, Ted Blackburns son in law is in the business with him and is a machinist.

Chic, I spoke with Ullman at ACGG in RENO. Lovely work, he's going to join Hill Country Rifle working with J. Earl. Smithson was there as well, love his scope mount system. Sorry you missed the show. This was my first time, I would have loved to have seen your work. I also owe you a debt of gratitude. Some time back I began my quest for an Ottmar. You spent some time with me on the phone and explained the manner in which Ottmar "signed" his rifles. I'm still looking for an Ottmar. In all a very enjoyable pursuit. Thankyou.

I have a feeling that there may be many many talented younger folks out there who have the capability and desire to meet or exceed the quality of work done by these older masters.

As many have written, what it takes to make these artists is the support of the public. Money breeds quality work. You are not going to get best quality work out of someone who might have the capability of doing best quality work unless you are willing to invest the money that it takes to get that work, as well as have the patience to wait for it.

Moreover, down through the years, It has probably been the public who has been responsible for much of the quality work that has been put out. Those people who know what they want and are willing to pay for it have probably contributed greatly to the design ideas that are inherent in todays fine custom guns.

So, collaboration, money, fine materials, and desire to succeed will continue to breed fine custom gunbuilders. But first comes MONEY.

nyrifleman,
So that was you. I know of one man who owns 6 Ottmar rifles. I got the one that I own from him. I can check and see if he wants to part with any of them.

The following is the last rifle that Maurice worked on. He surface ground the action, fit the barrel and chambered it in 6mm Remington and inletted the stock. I finished the stock, Gary Goudy did the checkering, Mark Stratton made custom scope bases, Leupold donated a scope and Talley donated rings, Jim Dubell fitted and crafted hinged bottom metal and fit the 3 position safety that Jim Wisner donated, Roger Kehr is engraving it and Doug Turnbull is going to do some Color Case work on some selected parts. It will likely be raffled on here and the proceeds will be going to Monika Ottmar.

Chic, Thankyou for the offer. I believe I'll take you up on it. I'm looking for an Ottmar with a longer LOP, 14 in or better. I'd love a few of those raffle tix. Let me know if the gentleman in question wants to part with one of his rifles. I promise to give it a good home. (And none of my rifles are safe queens BTW)

Chic,
That's a magnificent stock.
Thanks for posting the picture.
Don

quote:

Originally posted by nyrifleman:
Chic, Thankyou for the offer. I believe I'll take you up on it. I'm looking for an Ottmar with a longer LOP, 14 in or better. I'd love a few of those raffle tix. Let me know if the gentleman in question wants to part with one of his rifles. I promise to give it a good home. (And none of my rifles are safe queens BTW)

I have two rifles made by Ottmar when he did work for Champlins. Both on Champlin Actions and in Weatherby calibers. Both have long LOP>

lb404-is there a point to that post......

Just a response to your statement that you were looking for an Ottmer with "longer LOP, 14 in or better". Didn't mean to get your nickers in a twist. Sorry your the sensitive type. Perhaps you should consider a thong...! Harder to get into a twist!

lb my point was are you looking to sell?

Well yes. I mean I do have two rifles that were stocked by him and they are for sale. I was reading the posts with some interest because I, also have been looking for another Ottmer rifle. Both of mine, I think, have a greater than 14" LOP. I agree that it is hard to find rifles for those that need longer than normal LOP. If you are looking for big bores, I have one in 375 Weatherby and another in 340 Weatherby both with EAW claw mounts and 3x9 German Zeiss scopes and proper Iron Sights.

Roland 1 posted an 801 area code and number for D'Arcy Echols. His number is 435-755-6842.

One master craftsman who many times gets overlooked in these discussions is Gene Simillion, which is a shame. Gene makes complete best-quality rifles, doing all the metalwork and woodwork himself, and he builds them not only as a showcase for fine craftsmanship and beauty, but he builds 'em for serious hunting use as well.

Gene is a very serious and accomplished hunter himself, and he builds his rifles for as near-perfect function as possible, plus fine accuracy with the focus on serious hunting use. He's reknown for his fine chambering work, precise, stable bedding -- the works.

Gene Simillion
220 S. Wisconsin
Gunnison, CO 81230
(970) 641-1126

To add a name to the above, which all deserve a tremendous amount of respect and credit, I'd add Ralf Martini of Martini-Hagn.

Allen I was looking forward to seeing Simillion at the SCI show. Either he was not there or was listed incorrectly in the guide as I was unable to find his display. I'm going to be looking for a stockmaker for a pre-64 .338 Win Mag. Tom Burgess and I have been communicating on metalwork specs for same. I really wanted to get a sense of Simillion's work. One maker at the ACGG show whose work I really like and doesn't seem to get much press is Lee Helgeland. He is accredited as a stockmaker in the guild. His stocks are somewhat thinner than most in the grip and forearm, which I prefer. He had a .338 Wim on a Mauser action which he also did the metalwork on. Quarter Rib, hooded banded front sight, etc... Very nice work.

Gene Simillion should be at the top ot the list for quality and elegance in hunting rifles. And when I say hunting, I mean those one can rely on to work when you get there.
There is a cover photo and a story about his work in the March '02 Accurate Rifle. The subject was a .300 Win Mag.
I hope to be photographing and writing about Hegeland's .338 in the near future, nice rifle!
SDH

gnmkr

how are things coming on any new books you are about to have published. haven't seen anything new from you in awhile?

22WRF,
Have a completed manuscript, shopping for a publisher. More info when I sign a contract.

Let me put in a vote for Jerry Fisher, but he is not up and coming, he arrived long ago.

Is anyone familiar with the work of Shane Thompson? Actually seen/handled one of his rifles?

Shane Thompson's work appears on the cover, and in a story I wrote in Accurate Rifle Feb. '02. I photographed the rifle and inspected it under magnification.
His work is more than competent. He still has a lot to learn, but he knows it and is willing and able.
Definately an up and comer.
SDH

Shane built a 300 RUM on a Nesika action, McMillan glass stock for hunting, and an English Walnut stock for hanging around the house looking pretty for my son-in-law. Outstanding in every respect.

I had a lengthy conversation with Lee Helgeland this afternoon about a custom pre-64 I've in mind. After seeing his work at the ACGG show and speaking with him I believe he is the smith who will create a custom .338 for me.