Yesterday I took my K-Hornet to the range. It is a BSA Martini...21" Hart barrel with beavertail forend, more or less standard profile buttstock with a small cheekpiece, proved accurate (on another few rifles) 36-X scope.

Was shooting 40 gr. bullets over Rem 7-1/2 primers and 12.3 grains of AA-1680.

Here's the poser: Several of us tried shooting groups with it at 100 yards from good benches, with good front and rear rests. We got about 3"-4" groups with it! Nein Gutt!! So then, almost at the end of the day, one of them suggested we try it without holding the gun at all, just firing by pinching the back of the trigger-guard with the thumb and the trigger with the first pad of the index finger. It instantly started shooting SUB-1/2" groups, when fired that way.

Okay, I've shot lots and lots of benchrest, where I shoot free recoil and don't even touch the back of the triggerguard...just adjust my triggers to about 1/3 oz pull weight, and gently push the trigger FORWARD until I want the shot to go off...then I relax that finger, and off she goes.

But, I have NEVER seen any rifle as sensitive to hold as this one is. Any conjecture as to why it might be responding this way? Do you have any suggestions as to what might be checked and/or changed on it to make it shoot well with a normal hold? Obviously, it CAN shoot, so why won't it if one actually holds the gun?

I would look at how tight the lockup is. With any pressure on the butt or the forearm would move the joint if it was loose.

Fjold -

One of the other guys shooting it suggested I check that also....so, I tried moving (wiggling) it. It seemed quite rigid and tight. But, maybe I will take off the butt-plate and check the through-bolt to see if it can be made even tighter... Thanks for the suggestion.

Canuck-

My boss imports used target rifles, and (I believe) we have hundreds of BSAs.

These range from Model 12s, one 13, 12/15s, MKs I, II, III, IV, and V.

These are all very accurate target rifles, but sadly (for me) all .22 rimfires.

I lust for a BSA centerfire.

I'd love to sweeten it up with good wood, a nice new barrel, and with my old eyes, a scope.

I see these as a poor man's single shot.

I have nothing to add on your free recoil issue, but admire your taste in rifles.

flaco

Flaco- Thank you for the compliment. I am flattered.

Contrarily, you guys must regularly see at least a few of a rifle model I have always wanted to own, but never have had. That is, the Mark V BSA International Match rifle in .22 LR.

Now there is a rifle I lust for....

When I dry-fire my rifles on a bench rest, even a heavy target rifle, I notice the crosshairs tend to jump off the target centre.

About the only way I could stop it was to "pinch" the trigger against the trigger guard,and keep my cheek off the stock.

I just figgured I had the worst benchrest technique in Oz.

I'd look at F/E or stock. Sounds like a "bedding issue".

Resently AC, I had what could have been a similar problem with a sporterized Mod 36 MAS in 7.5 X 54. When I shot it at 200 yds. it did quite well . When my buddy shot it, and he really is a better shot than I, It went a foot high and had what looked like a larger spread.

The one obvious difference was that I was supporting it under the action and he was supporting it out on the Hand gaurd.His cheek pressure was creating a much higher forward torque on the hand gard which transmitted it to the barrel. It appears to me that this affected point of impact and barrel harmonics.

Don't know if this is related to your problem but I thought I'd relate it to you anyway. roger

I would suggest that you look at the contact between the foreend and the receiver. In my experience, you want a very slight gap. However, before doing any surgery, try shooting the rifle with the foreend removed to see if it still does the same thing. That will at least help you either eliminate or isolate the foreend as the problem. Also, try placing your front sandbag under the front of the action without touching the foreend. Last, rest the muzzle end of the barrel on the front rest to see if that helps.

Hope this helps.

Dave

When you say not holding it at all does that mean no butt to shoulder contact?

If so, here's a concept to consider;

Although minimal even a 22 hornet has a bit of recoil. When held to the shoulder body resistance may allow any looseness in stock to action fit to work on that looseness and allow the rifle to flex up down or sideways depending on why/where it is loose.

When unsupported by shoulder the recoil is delivered mainly straight back although possibly not completely so but basically in line with the original line up of the bore.

I would certainly check the fit of butt stock to action, tightness etc.. Some tightening or re-fitting of this connection may be required. I would also test it by holding the forearm in my off hand which can rest against a sand bag. If the added resistance of gripping the fore end tends to improve groups it probably further indicates some looseness somewhere in wood to metal fit.

Well, when you wre shooting from the bench,did you have your resting spot under the barrel or forearm. If you had your rest under the barrel,then you were putting pressure on the barrel and it will cause it to shoot not as well. Had a BSA Cadet martini many years ago,a couple of them. one in your caliber,and made one in 223. loved them.

Good work, guys, keep it coming, please!!

Have "sort of" considered many of the things you are saying, prior to your mentoning them, but hearing from you what is important both re-inforces AND gives new, potentially effective things to try.

Dave - The forend contact is one of the things I have been suspecting as it is forced against the front of the action "tight as a tick". Your suggestion to take off the forend and try it that way is something I should have thought to do already, but didn't. I WAS going to just remove the forend, make sure it clears the front of the action by about .003" or so, and glass bed it to the barrel if it isn't already. (A friend who "ate his gun" left me this one, so I don't really know how it is all put together yet.) Anyway, your idea is better...before whittling/re-bedding, I'll try it with NO forend on at all.

Roger- I tried it with the bag under the action and the bag under the forend tip (and the middle another time). No differences in the results. I have a couple of Ruger No. 1's that are sensitive to that, but this Martini doesn't seem to be.

Stocker - I find it shoots best so far when there is as little human body to rifle contact as possible... In this case that means no contact of anything except light contact of the right cheek of my face against the cheekpiece and absoluutely zero contact between my shoulder and the buttplate. Because of the combo of the scope mounting height and the cheekpiece height, it is not possible to see through the sight without cheek contact.

JAL- This is the only rifle I have which seems to be "improved" by pinching off the shots. My benchrest guns all shoot better completely free recoil (including one previously in .308 Winchester which I used when I first started BR years & years ago). By free recoil, I mean NOTHING touching the gun except the waxed leather bags on the bottom and the trigger finger touching the trigger. With those guns, I "catch" them with my shoulder at the end of their recoil, but as they are small cartridges and the guns weigh just at 13.5 pounds, that's no big deal.

It WAS a big deal with that first .308 - - - in the class I shot IT in, the weight limit was 9.5 pounds when I started competing. Shooting a case full of powder with a 175 grain bullet free recoil from a 9 lb., 6 oz rifle can be exciting!!! Did manage to take second place in my first tournament with it, but by about the third or fourth tournament, I had changed it to .30-BR. BTW, it was the first .30-BR I ever saw or heard of, though the .308 x 1.5" and 1-5/8"" were both fairly common....

If you guys have more ideas for this Hornet, I'm still all ears! Thanks muchly....

AC