The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Boddington says9.3x64 too long for 30/06 action???Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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http://www.gunsandammomag.com/EUR/ Boddington states the 9.3Brenneke can be too long for a 30/06 length action with the heavier bullets. Looking on the Woodleigh website I see that the 320gn(Rn 1.32",PP 1.44") is so very close to the 220gn(1.38") 06 bullet in length. Yet I dont hear people complaining about that or any other std length cartridge. Surely if we can accomodate a 375H&H to a stdM98,then I see no problem with the 9.3x64 going into that or any other action suitable for the 2.5"length case. | ||
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Woodjack I have a 9.3x64 built on a mauser 98 action. While I have not used the 320 gr Woodleigh bullets I have had no trouble with the 286 gr Nosler the 293 gr Tug or the 300 gr Swift A-frame. I load all three of them to a longer overall length than the factory RWS 293 gr Tugs with no problem. A little more magazine length could be used if you wanted to use max charges of 4350. I have found that 4320 is THE powder in my rifle and use it for 250 thru 300 gr bullets. I believe the 9.3x64 was designed for the mauser 98 action. | |||
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I used to shoot/hunt with a guy who found an Oberndorf Mauser commercial action in an older Husqy rifle. He decided that he had to have a 9.3x64 and requested my advice on having this built. The rifle turned out very accurate and the action mods to house the 9.3x64 were very minor, it works. I think that one has to take the comments of almost all gunwriters with a HUGE grain of salt as most of them are inclined to exaggerate their own experience/skills/knowledge. I trust the hands-on reports of guys who actually go out and hunt, shoot and so forth a lot more than I do the reports of journalists "hunting" on what amount to game farms. BTW, in the article, a Tikka rifle, allegedly Boddinton's is pictured. He is a lefty, but, this rifle is a righty and it is stated that it is available in left handed style. So, what does this say, if anything? | |||
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"BTW, in the article, a Tikka rifle, allegedly Boddinton's is pictured. He is a lefty, but, this rifle is a righty and it is stated that it is available in left handed style. So, what does this say, if anything?" It says that you don't know much about how these articles are put together. The negatives get reversed all the time. The production department folks don't know about guns. They are told to strip in a picture and they do it not realizing it is a reversed negative. Or, as is probably the cae in this instance, they wanted a pic of a Tikka in the article and this was the only one on hand. They do have stock images in inventory you know. Perhaps the pic choice was left to the production guy or maybe they never even specified a left handed model. Given the staffing issues most magazines are faced with these days, it sometimes amazes me that they even manage to get them out.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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No, I am certainly not a magazine editor and you may be right vis-a-vis the photo in question. However, I have reservations concerning magazine articles due to having worked with guys who have guided a number of famous gunwriters, including J'OC, Page and others. Generally speaking, I tend to trust the opinions of experienced bushmen here in B.C. more than I do those of journalists from foreign lands and, as I said, I have shot and hunted with a Mauser 98 in 9.3x64. Maybe the negative was reversed, however, as I and others have said, the 9.3x64 easily fits into Mauser 98 actions with very little modification and that is my point. | |||
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Not to take away from what you are saying because I agree. However I have read Boddingtons writings where he said that he is as comfortable with a right hand gun as with a left. For some reason I think I remember him saying that he had shot a right hand gun for so long that he almost preferred it. I believe he shoots left handed and does the reach over thing to work the bolt. | |||
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If you'll notice I specifically avoided the question of the 9.3x64 being suitable for a standard 98 action. I personally think it is. I was trying to address the fact that just because the picture is wrong is no reason to sink the writer. It may well be that he is wrong, but attack him on the facts he is wrong on, not the photo which someone else put in the article. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I read the article the first post linked to. This is what Boddington says in the article about the 9.3x64 fitting into the 98 action..... ********************************************* Technically, it will thus fit into a standard-length action, but overall length with the heavy bullets pushes (and in some actions exceeds) the limit. ********************************************** Isn't what he's saying correct? Wouldn't it push the limits of a standard 98 magazine box? And aren't some 98 actions (the "intermediate length") a bit shorter. I don't see where he said "it won't fit" | |||
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Matt Norman, When Boddington says"sometimes exceeds the limit", That to me translates to that, it wont fit. Or how do you read that??  Yes some mausers are intermediate length ,specifically designed for 7x57.If a person has business trying to fit a 2.5" case into a 2.2"specific intermediate action action,and to complain that it does not accept the 320gn load when he tries it,where did the problem start?  With the person,not the action ,I would say.Once again,Do we Hear about people saying that the 220gn/06 does not fit in an action and box designed for the 2.5" case?? Simple, just use the same combo for the 9.3x64 320gnload and they should not have reason to complain or project unfare analysis on a cartridge be it the Brenneke or any other2.5"case,in actual fact, the 320gnRn is marginally shorter that the 220gn06. | |||
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I think that the ideal action for this fabulous round, possibly the single finest big game hunting round ever designed, is the very rare Brno-ZG-47. I just sold one to one of my hunting partners and it is now in the hands of Ralf Martini, being built into a 9.3x64. I hated parting withh this, but, I have far too many rifles now and a minty 1927 vintage Mauser sporter from W.Oschhatz of Potsdam in 9.3x62 was part of the deal, so...... This almost 80 year old rifle will put three shots into a tight triangle at 100 yds. with factory ammo, consistently and with it's equally ancient scope. Something about quality............... | |||
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ALF, What is the magbox length on that master of the forest?  | |||
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No one gives a flying shit what Boddington says! | |||
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That is the one, one of my two favourite sporters with it's predecessor the 21-22 series being the other. I have seen and handled one 9.3x62 and, of course, have never seen a 9.3x64 in that rifle. I would absolutely love to find one of those as I cannot conceive of a better rifle/cartridge for serious B.C. hunting. That's the problem, though, the good, old days of high quality-low cost sporters are long gone and nothing I have seen made recently is an equal to those rifles, Dakota, Champlin or whatever. | |||
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Thats a great set up Alf. I only wish CZ would make a barrel band standard, i know the new classic model has this. | |||
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Woodjack, Sometimes means sometimes not all the time not that it won't fit...RTFW Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Woodjack, You titled this thread "Boddington says 9.3x64 too long for 30/06 action???" Nope, that isn't what he said in the article. Would a thread titled "Woodjack says 375H&H fits 30-06 action" be exactly what you said? Nope, 'cuz you used the word "accomadate" in your statement. That means the action/mag box has to altered. You aren't putting a 375H&H into a standard length magazine box without gunsmith level alterations. Read again what he said... "Technically, it will thus fit into a standard-length action, but overall length with the heavy bullets pushes (and in some actions exceeds) the limit." I don't see where he made any outrages statement there worth a big flaming thread. 'nuff said | |||
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Kutenay If you have Ralf Martini put your 9.3x64 together you are going to be very happy. He did the metal work on my rifle and it feeds &functions absolutly perfectly. This is one rifle that I will never part with. | |||
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It is no longer mine, I traded it to my hunting partner who took a number of the actions I hhad saved for custom projects. I am going to have Bill Leeper build me a 9.3x62 on a Brno 21H action I still have and that is IT since I have far too many rifles now. Ralf certainly does nice work, another guy I know has a singleshot he and Hagn built; a lovely rifle which only cost 18 grand. I also have a ZG-47 in '.06, in like new condition and if there was ever a better hunting rifle for big game built, I have yet to see it. Too bad they don't make rifles like this now. | |||
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Kutenay Would you describe the qualities, as you see them, that makes the ZG-47 a great hunting rifle for big game. | |||
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Matt Norman, If I didnt start this "flaming " thread as you say, we would not be enjoying the photos of ALFS'rare and wonderful BRNO Brenneke. Every cloud has a silver linning,and sometimes we just have to learn to see through the smoke of the "flames".  So far I see the results of this thread as worthwhile and am sure others do as well. If these are the flames of Hell,it aint too bad so far!ALF Thanks for your efforts , much appreciated. I have held Hartmann Weiss magnum mausers and sometimes they dont do for me what arifle like your does! | |||
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Woodjack, You are correct; Always look for the positives. Besides that, look at the entertainment value we've gotten here! The secret of enjoying the A-R experience is not taking things too seriously. We are all in the same boat...bunch of gun guys looking for interaction with kindred souls. -MN | |||
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This one is just like Max Chittick supposedly saying that the Mannlicher-Schoenauer action was too short for the 10.75x68mm, when Steyr made them through out the 1920s and 30s, not to mention the standard Mauser actions (same size as a Mannlicher) being used for the same cartridge. A bucket of salt is necessary whenever reading a gun magazine. LLS  | |||
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I have been a fan of the Brno 21-22 and ZG-47 rifles since I was a young punk, shortly after the Jurassic Era. My reasons are that they are very well designed and built from very good materials, they are not too heavy relative to caliber and they shoot like dambusters. I prefer using rifles in realistic cartridges, not overly bulky, heavy and relatively fragile thundersticks that chamber minor missiles such as the .338/.378, for example. The ZG-47 will handle any of the .06 based rounds plus the Bock and Brenneke cartridges and the 21-22 will handle these as well, although I consider it too light for the 9.3x64 which boots you like a .375. The safety, stock style, trigger system can be easily modified and these are matters of personal preference, anyway. My only quibble with classic Brnos is the lack of a bolt locking safety on the 21-22 series; I change to a Mod. 70 style and also install a Timney trigger as I hate DSTs. If, I had a ZG-47 in 9.3x62 or 64 and a 21H in 7x57, with the longer barrels and the dies, conponents, etc. to handload; I would change the triggers, install the safeties and also a good synthetic stock(s). I would put on Talley or Brno mounts with FX-IV Leupys, two scopes per rifle and sight-in the irons. I think that this combo would be perfect for hunting in B.C. and I would exchange my quite expensive Dakota for it in a heartbeat. I have no reason to use an African style cartridge as I have never been there, don't want to go and don't know shit about it. So, the lack of a "magnum" action in these rifles is immaterial to me. I would take a ZG-47 in 9.3x64 with 286 NPs over ANYTHING else in Grizzly country and may even horse trade my partner out of the one he is having built when Martini finishes it......... | |||
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The steel is indeed amazing. Mine was made in the 50's had only the most superficial pitting on the barrel that cleaned up and NONE on the action not even below the wood. Despite pitted bore and very long throat (200s would fall out the case before lands touched) it shot very accurately. The low comb was a major issue for me even with a very low mounted scope. On recoil the sight picture is lost as the barrel moves skywards. For me the safety was unworkable given what I am used to. It will shortly be returning to me with reworked comb, pad, M70 style safety and lightened trigger by a very good and cheap smith. I will then have a very accurate, well constructed 30-06 that will not rust superficialy and which I do not mind a couple of extra barrel pits - what more could I want! BRNOs are thought to be agricultural at best in the UK (courtesy of the later models)I do not intend to change people's view point! | |||
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Alf, I have built 3 or 4 9.3x64s on FN actions and they all worked fine, even with 320 gr. Woodleighs... I don't have the specs handy but I don't recall the 9.3x64 and that long a case that it needed a Brevex or 416 Rigby type magnum action??? If it does the so will the 7x64....If I understand your post or are you saying it just needs a 375 length action in which case that is correct, but any Mauser can be openned up in the rear to .375 length... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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A number of months ago there was an extensive discussion on the advisability of making up a rifle on the 21H action in the 9.3x62 range as it was a small ring action and the overwhelming opinion was not to do it. Are you satisfied that the Brno 21 small ring mauser type action is solid enough for a 9.3x62 and loaded to modern velocities? square shooter | |||
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I do not see why there would be a problem with the 9.3x62 loaded to Nosler Manmual specs, but, I would hesitate to modify it for a 9.3x64. One of mine is re-chambered to a .280 Rem. and I load it fairly warm without any problem; I know of other rifles on this action chmabered to similar cartridges. Some years ago, well-known custom metalsmith, Ralf Martini, told me that he had just built a .280 AI on one of these, so, I think that it's o.k. I have and many others have .06 class rounds factory chambered in rifles on the smallring HVA action; I doubt that it is as strong as a 21-22 series and I do not think that Husqvarna would have done this had there been any doubts about smallring action strength with modern steels. Also, some 21-22s were chambered in 7x64 and this is a round with higher breech pressures than the old Bock cartridge. | |||
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Alf you understand you're preaching to the converted. | |||
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I have converted several Brno 21s and 22s to 9.3x62, there is no problem with that, why in the world would there be...Same for the 35 Whelen or 338-06, the Brno small ring is more than enough and anyone that says its not is just full of prunes.... I would not convert one to a magnum or short magnum, but I have seen them in 7 mag and they never gave the owners any problem that I know of... I don't think it would hurt a thing to convert one to a 9.3x64 as thats not a very big case, but I have not done that...I have seen a lot of nice US guild guns in 30-06, 270 and 280 on G33-40 and Brno 21s and 22s...Why would the 9.3x62 be any different other than it operates at less pressure... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Boddington says9.3x64 too long for 30/06 action???
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