I'm posting this topic here as I judge you-all as the best as to who I will listen too.

What firearms would you judge 'best' for what you'd want to have with you on a trip to Mars? I'm real keen on the S&W Model 66 4" as handguns go. But what about rifles? Reason I say stainless as perhaps a boat/humid setting is what I am thinking about. A Ruger 'all weather' M77 in 308 or 30-06. What rifle would you want to have within reach in a humid situation? A stainless Remington M-700 in a typical caliber? A stainless Mini-14? (MOA isn't that critical, perhaps 3 MOA is okay compared to reliability).

Okay, what about a shotgun?; Mossberg or Remington marine/stainless? ( I kinda like the 870 Marine).

What about the Marlin M60 in stainless/papoose configuration?

Me, I'd want a phaser!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:
I'm posting this topic here as I judge you-all as the best as to who I will listen too.

What firearms would you judge 'best' for what you'd want to have with you on a trip to Mars? I'm real keen on the S&W Model 66 4" as handguns go. But what about rifles? Reason I say stainless as perhaps a boat/humid setting is what I am thinking about. A Ruger 'all weather' M77 in 308 or 30-06. What rifle would you want to have within reach in a humid situation? A stainless Remington M-700 in a typical caliber? A stainless Mini-14? (MOA isn't that critical, perhaps 3 MOA is okay compared to reliability).

Okay, what about a shotgun?; Mossberg or Remington marine/stainless? ( I kinda like the 870 Marine).

What about the Marlin M60 in stainless/papoose configuration?

That ACID IS BAD SHIT???

Hmm...I've never made a post when I didn't need to know something or wasn't going somewhere with it.

My question to you is: where are you going with this?? Mars?

If there's hostile life on Mars, just stand off and nuke'em from orbit!

Type II Full Auto Plasma Rifle with Generation 22 Holographic sights and range finder.

Even though not available in stainless, I would take a Colt AR15 since it is easy to work on, a Remington 870, both of these using a very good protective finish. As for handgun, Ruger Redhawk 44.

hmmm, what is the condition on mars, is it humid? does it have an atmosphere, or is it in a vacuum?

what are the conditions like on your trip there? could you vacuum seal the firearm in transit? what is the reason for taking it, testing ballistics in the Martian atmosphere?

there are so many questions that determine a competent answer. without more information all I can say is

I agree with Z1R!

Red

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
Me, I'd want a phaser!

A titanium phaser - of course.

KB

S&W Night Guard scandium w/ tritium front sight, pick your caliber. In reality these light guns are punishing to shoot with magnum loads and have had some strength problems in the past but if weight is important...

http://www.smith-wesson.com/we...3&top_category=15703

I think the weight savings of titanium would be a big benefit over stainless, unless you have come up with a better launch vehicle than we have now.

Mars is anything but humid or wet so the stainless or blue decision is moot. Weight on the other hand is a huge factor so I'd look for a carbon fiber and titanium selfloader in 17 HMR. The atmosphere is only about 1% the density of Earth and gravity is 38% of Earth so those pointy little slugs ought to range pretty well. About the only thing people would have to shoot at there would be other people, and all it would take to do them in is a hole in their suit. Come to think of it an FN Five-Seven might be just what you need. You can buy it off the shelf and drill it full of holes to lighten it further. Use the 20 round magazine to good effect and you can have the red planet all to yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:
Mars is anything but humid or wet so the stainless or blue decision is moot. Weight on the other hand is a huge factor so I'd look for a carbon fiber and titanium selfloader in 17 HMR. The atmosphere is only about 1% the density of Earth and gravity is 38% of Earth so those pointy little slugs ought to range pretty well. About the only thing people would have to shoot at there would be other people, and all it would take to do them in is a hole in their suit. Come to think of it an FN Five-Seven might be just what you need. You can buy it off the shelf and drill it full of holes to lighten it further. Use the 20 round magazine to good effect and you can have the red planet all to yourself.

Hell, in that case an ice pick is all you need.

Sean Connery used a 12 gauge pump. Blued.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:
Sean Connery used a 12 gauge pump. Blued.

I didn't think Outland took place on Mars, but clearly Pam Grier agreed with the choice.

quote:

I didn't think Outland took place on Mars

Was not Outland set on one of the moons of Saturn?

Per the question, my choices would be "12-guage autoloader, Uzi 9mm, plasma rifle in the 40-watt range..."

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:

Was not Outland set on one of the moons of Saturn?

Per the question, my choices would be "12-guage autoloader, Uzi 9mm, plasma rifle in the 40-watt range..."

Jupiter. Io to be specific. Or so says the Internet Movie Database.

You forgot the 45 longslide with the laser sights!

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:
I'd look for a carbon fiber and titanium selfloader in 17 HMR...Come to think of it an FN Five-Seven might be just what you need.

Hell, in that case an ice pick is all you need.

One could think of either as a long range ice pick I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:
I'm real keen on the S&W Model 66 4" as handguns go.

On a serious note, I've found that use of the hottest Federal 125-gr factory loads will soon tie up S&W 19s and 66s, at least this was true until recent years anyway. It seems that this load is hot enough to cause a cylinder bushing to back out, effectively immobilizing the cylinder. I have witnessed, up-close-&-personal, the initial fury and ultimate outrage of several unfortunate owners who've experienced this occurrence. Not saying that yours will but am saying that theirs did, so caveat emptor.
Regards, Joe

FWIW, the film is a remake of "High Noon".

quote:

You forgot the 45-caliber longslide with the laser sights!

Damn!! You got me. My memory is slipping. And I've got a longslide! I really do-- an AMT Hardballer Long Slide, in stainless in about 95% condition. However, I don't have the laser sighting...

For the rifle I'd take a stainless Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H and for the shotgun I'd take a stainless Remington 870 (I think they call it the Marine model) and for the handgun I'd take a nice stainless Commander size 1911 in .45 ACP. In fact, if I could only own three firearms, that would be my list. You could hunt anything, anywhere, anytime and have a nice personal defense set as well.

you might have a bit of a problem firing a gun on mars.... there's no gravity there.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:
Sean Connery used a 12 gauge pump. Blued.

You sure about that? Looked to me like he had a .410 of some sort. Been years since I've seen the movie, but I do remember thinking "what the hell is he doing with that tiny shotgun" while I watched it.

Matt Norman Posted 13 August 2009 08:34


I'm posting this topic here as I judge you-all as the best as to who I will listen too.

Union Lake, Michigan USA Maybe it's the water ?.

A grenade works regardless of humidity as do MOST PROPERLY MAINTAINED WEAPONS !.

Several different methods of dealing with humidity water and Rusting !.

You may have been better advised as to state a purpose for the weapon ( Boating environment storage in

a boat Deer gun stored in the basement of the cabin by the lake , hunting in the rain ( what are you

hunting ?.) Incomplete questions will result in ( MARS LIKE ANSWERS )

quote:

You sure about that?

Hell no.


-did a quick search:

http://cineleet.com/wp-content.../04/outlandoniel.jpg

http://images.google.com/image...off&newwindow=1&sa=2

quote:

Originally posted by merlinron:
you might have a bit of a problem firing a gun on mars.... there's no gravity there.

There's gravity on Mars, approximately one third or Earth's.

Why would gravity have anything to do with how the gun works?

I would want a laser weapon on Mars. Shoot a bullet up there & it might go into orbit & hit somebody 30 years later!

Are you all so sure it will ignite !. Think about that before jumping too conclusions . Key Element

needed is OXYGEN and your SOL with out that in the atmosphere or Lack of it !.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Are you all so sure it will ignite !. Think about that before jumping too conclusions . Key Element

needed is OXYGEN and your SOL with out that in the atmosphere or Lack of it !.

Ummm... wouldn't a firearm cartridge ignite in zero atmosphere? Last I heard, if you're getting enough free oxygen into a cartridge during the combustion stage, you've probably got a few major issues to deal with.

I wanted to see if anybody evers pays attention !.

Ignition would be significantly less effective for the same reason you would NOT FIRE a

conventional Firearm in space . EXTREME COLD !!! In theory this could also effect the

Primer metal as well as cartridge it's self . Not to mention the weapon which would go every which

way No External pressure all internal bye bye spacesuit and occupant !!!.




A conventional firearm would, under most circumstances, work perfectly well in space.

It's true that there's no oxygen in the abyss of space, but the firing of a gun doesn't depend on oxygen even here on earth. Or, rather, it does, but not on the oxygen in the atmosphere.

The ammunition used in a typical gun consists of a bullet (the part that actually gets shot out of the gun), a casing filled with gunpowder (or cordite), and an explosive primer. The primer is ignited by the mechanical action of the hammer hitting its firing pin (or, in a rimfire cartridge, of the striker hitting the rim); this causes the powder to explode, sending the bullet flying down the barrel of the gun and out into the world. The gunpowder and explosive material in the primer already contain all the oxygen they need; they'll ignite and burn quite happily with no external source of 02. Consider how tightly a bullet is clamped into its casing - how would free oxygen get in there anyway?

If anything, the absence of external air pressure in space would make the explosion of hot gas that propels the bullet out of its casing slightly more effective, although only by a negligible amount. And with no atmosphere to slow it down, the bullet would travel a lot further than it would on on earth: assuming it didn't hit Bruce Willis or anything else, it would continue on its merry way, driven by the force of the explosion, until acted upon by some other force - e.g., the gravity of some very large body. (This means that if you want to maximize your bullet's distance traveled, you need to fire it somewhere in the deepest reaches of interstellar space, where there's nothing around to drag it to a halt.)

So the lack of oxygen likely wouldn't put a damper on outer-space gunplay. Temperature, on the other hand, could be a problem.

People typically think of space as cold, but in fact space, being a vacuum, essentially has no temperature at all. Objects in space may get very hot or very cold, depending on their proximity to the sun and their albedo-basically, their tendency to reflect radiation rather than absorb it. It's certainly possible that a handgun way out in the middle of interstellar nowhere might become so cold that the gunpowder in the cartridge no longer reliably ignites and burns fast enough to produce an explosion. That's not a result specifically of being in space, though, but simply of being very, very cold.

For those of you who are extremely determined to test this theory may use the Nitrogen

Submersion Method !. Although I STRONGLY DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT OR SERIOUSLY SUGGEST YOU BE THAT

FOOLISH !!!.

Lordie, guess I should watch my figure of speech. I quit smoking left-handed cigarettes about 40 years ago so Mars is not in my future any more. (there I go again with the figures of speech, darnit!)

Let's start from the beginning. Were you, all considered 'gun experts' with some gunsmithing experience to back it up, going to have a firearm in an extended humid situation (say a live-aboard boat)....what rifle/shotgun would you consider and in what finish.

We've had our laughs, now let address the question thank-you-very-much.

P.S. I've re-read my original post a couple times and the reference to Mars was indeed rather dorky. My bad. It's my reference to 'less than ideal for firearms scenario'. How's that?

Does it matter what you brought? You would probably be the only one who did. You would be crowned Emperor until you caught some Z's. In an extremely adverse climate, I would like my All-weather stainless Ruger Red Label. Not a heck of a lot to go wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:
Lordie, guess I should watch my figure of speech [...] We've had our laughs, now let address the question thank-you-very-much. [...] P.S. I've re-read my original post a couple times and the reference to Mars was indeed rather dorky. My bad. It's my reference to 'less than ideal for firearms scenario'. How's that?

The low tech solution is as you described, stainless steel. But these days some of the high tech wonder finishes wear as well (or nearly as well) as stainless without its downsides and without limiting your firearm selection. Oh yeah, wood stocks probably won't be part of your solution. Have fun shopping.

In that case Mr. Norman ; A Model 870 Mossberg lives well on my friends Ocean going boat along with 25 mm

flare gun with a multitude of flares . Bird & Buck shot and Slugs . Because dam if those waters don't

have critters which can EAT YOU !. I personally can assure each and everyone of you JAWS DOES RESIDE

IN THE PACIFIC , along with Mako's Tigers and abundance of White tips ,Lemons , Blues and others !.

I never shoot sharks personally , I simply move the boat and fish another spot . Shoot one and the pond

fills up with many many more QUICKLY !. It does get the attention of the Coast Guard if they board you

however they are very professional courteous and as long as you're not holding it while they board ,

Never been a problem !.

nordrseta and Doc224/375....thank you. I don't feel so cyber 'date raped' now due to my dorky reference to 'Mars'.

I'd really be interested in knowing what 'high tech wonder finishes' are out there. Perhaps a Mossberg or Rem 870 stainless steel or 'Marine' finish aren't the way to go for a humid/water/salt water setting. Perhaps I can can take a Mauser 98, put it in a syntetic stock, and have it finished in one of these 'wonder finishes' out there. But tell me what they are? I'm a bit dated and don't know what the proven latest-greatest stuff is.

Hell, I just recently signed up for electronic deposit of my paycheck and got an ATM card.

Matt

If you are looking for for "guns' for a high wet, maybe salt water environ, I suggest the following:

Even Stainless will corrode, so some maintance will be needed to be done.

Either Stainless or plated finishes, would be better than blue.

The problem is in the "little areas" of the mechanism, where corrosion can shut a gun down.

Handguns to consider:
Glocks, Stainless S&W's and Stainless Colt 1911's.

Shotguns to consider:
Remington 870 Marine.

Rifles to consider:

Protection against man:
Ruger Stainless Mini 14.
AR 15. With proper lube it will work.
M1-A/M14, again with proper lube and care it will work. Seals swim them in.

The key is to keep the gun protected when not in use.

IF the gun is to be in constant ready, then the key is DAILY maintance.

For a lube in long storage, with instant ready, or wet conditions, take a look at E&L Gun Lube.

With an AR type rifle nothing has worked better for me than Break Free.

With an AR type rifle;
In high dust/sand/wet conditions, E&L gun lube on everything, but the gas rings, where I use Break Free.

Rifle protection against The Beasts.

Since bears are the only dangerous animal near Salt Water and HIGH rainfall, there are several Hunting rifles that will fit the bill.

As much Stainless as possible with proper maintance will do.

For me personally I would use a Blaser R 93 375 H&H Tracker.

The "Blue" finish on a Blaser R 93 is more rugged than most stainless steel, and the bolt assembly is easy to flush out.

Matt,

I'd be having a yarn to pro-fishermen...