I noticed in an AR post the other day what appeared to be a statement that bolt actions where the bolt locks into the barrel, rather than the action per se, are a relatively new innovation.

The poster attributed that to the Europeans, and seemed to infer it was one of several listed reasons current European guns were (are) superior to North American designs.

So, the question arose in my mind, when did this method of bolt locking first occur in large-production bolt action center-fire rifles?

The earliest one I can think of is likely the Savage Model 23 which came on market in late 1931. In that rifle, the barrel and action are one integral piece, so what folks call the "action" could be viewed as really just a barrel extension into which the bolt can slide and lock. (One could also argue it is a "receiver" [recieves both bolt and magazine] with a long, rifled, extension which serves as the barrel.)

Either way, I seem to recall it was available in .22 Long Rifle (M23-A), .25-20(M23-B), .32-20 (M23-C), and .22 Hornet (M23-D).

Among the bolt rifles with a conventionally removable (threaded) barrel and the bolt locking into the barrel rather than into locking recesses in the action, the earliest I can recall having used myself is the Sportco Model 44 target rifle in .308 Winchester, which was first produced in Australia by "Omark Australia" in the late 1960's, early 1970's, and may even still be in production under another name..

I am sure there must be other such rifles which don't come to mind, which were earlier, as this is not a far-out deviation from conventional design.

Which bolt-guns can you guys think of that were using this design feature even earlier?

Don't know, but I've heard that Shultz & Larson had one years ago, and Australia's Sportco/Omark single shot target rifle probably came out about 1970 ish.

Don't know about being an improvement either, to put a normal barrel in we need an adapter which costs over $100.
John L.

The new Remington 710 of all things, locks up in the barrel.

<

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
Don't know, but I've heard that Shultz & Larson had one years ago,>



've heard that a couple of times, but no one seems able to identify which S&L action/rifle it was. I've owned S&L Models 54-J, 60, 62, 65, & 68, and none of those had lugs locking into the barrel; they all had locking lugs on the rear half of the bolt.
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<and Australia's Sportco/Omark single shot target rifle probably came out about 1970 ish.>

Yeah, that's about what I figured, too. I bought my first one in 1976, and it was well used at the time, so I figured it had to be around by about `1971-'72 at the latest. (I've still got it and a couple more, BTW.)
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<Don't know about being an improvement either, to put a normal barrel in we need an adapter which costs over $100. John L.

>



It IS a pain in the neck for one who wants to re-barrel the Sportco action. Requires either some pretty touchy milling in the breech end of a standard barrel, or as you say, an adapter. On the positive side, it makes for a pretty short stiff action when using original Sportco barrels, where one doesn't need the adapter.

From what I have seen with ones which suffered blown primers in the Canadian National Matches at Connaught in 1978, it doesn't seem to lend any improvement to gas-handling characteristics either. [Those blown primers weren't the fault of the Sportco rifles...was an instance of MOD/DCRA issuing ammo with .3085" 173 gr. bullets for optional use that year in the tight (.306"-307" groove diameter) Sportco barrels as I recall.]

quote:

Originally posted by Kingfisher:
The new Remington 710 of all things, locks up in the barrel.

Thanks, Kingfisher...guess I'll need to take a good look at one of those just to see which approach they used to cutting the clearance for the locking lugs to enter the barrel....whether they milled lug-shaped slots, or just used a round "plunge mill" to make clearance/entry cuts.

The bolt head must be smaller than normal and the barrel shank large for this to work. What might be representative diameters across the lugs and the barrel shank on these types of actions?

quote:

Originally posted by Marc:
The bolt head must be smaller than normal and the barrel shank large for this to work. What might be representative diameters across the lugs and the barrel shank on these types of actions?

Most that I've seen have a bolt diameter equal to the lugs like Weatherby, Browning BBR and the like. My Sauer 200 is very much like those. Nominal barrel shank diameter is 1.07, the bolt body and lugs are .788 and the action is about 1.4 wide. The magnum version of the 200 or 202 would be slightly larger in all dimensions.

I don't know the history of this setup but the Mauser 2000 had this feature.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
I don't know the history of this setup but the Mauser 2000 had this feature.

Righto! Knew I had seen that locking method somewhere else too. I don't know when they began selling the Mauser 2000, but I know they were holding a discontinuance/disposal sale in 1985 at our local gun shops in Phoenix, AZ...could have bought a M2000 with two barrels of your choice for about 4 months then, for $550. (...If bought as a package. Oherwise, guns with one barrel were $500, and spare barrels were $200. Don't recall what spare bolts were costing, in case one wanted to also be able to switch from non-mag to magnum chamberings.)

Canuck, I have been hesitant replying to your post - since in reality I can't answer when the system of bolt lockup directly in the barrel was inroduced. But since most posts here don't answer that question either, I guess I'll also add my $.02...

To me, the direct lockup in the barrel is often (mostly?) associated with switch barrels. It allows the manufacturers to resolve problems with headspace, otherwise present if lockup is done in the receiver. Examples of this system in various shapes include: Blaser, Mauser (66, M03 etc), Sauer (200 series, and others?), Johannsen and other builders of high end take-down Mausers.

I know Mauser built takedown rifles in the 1st half of the 20th Century. But I'll be darned if I know whether these rifles were built with direct lockup in the barrel. Maybe ALF or some other Mauser aficionado can help with this particular branch of the discussion??

Blaser and Mauser 66 guns with direct barrel lock up have been built at least since the '70ties - most likely even before that (I'm guessing the designation 66 might be the year of initial design or introduction?)??

- mike

mho -

Thanks for your post. Would indeed be interesting to get that info from a true Mauser expert, which I ain't....though I used to collect them 30-35 years ago. Also got to thinking late last night, early this morning while suppossedly sleeping...am not too sure the rifles I was thinking of in my above reply to Schromf were actually Mauser 2000's. May well have been the "200" made by ? (Sauer?, someone like that....)

Dang, am starting to run out of hooks in the memory room to hang stuff on as I age....