Can anyone tell me, is ebony normally a pain to work with? I bought a piece to put a grip cap on my laminate stock for my 7mmrem. It seems that when I am shaping it with a sanding wheel on my dremel it makes a very fine powder that really irritates my nose. I have tried wearing a dust mask, even plugging my nose and breathing through my mouth, which just gets a grime of it in my mouth. So...

Does anybody have any tips on how to control the dust from the wood? I thought I would just tape the nozzle from my shopvac onto the bench by the vise and hope it catches enough. I also thought about just working outside, as it has been rather breezy lately. any other ideas?

Thanks.

Red

Dago,
Do a search on toxic woods.. it's far more common... yep, ebony is a hassle
jeffe

Dago Red, wear a mask, same with Coco Bolo.

Actually, the same is true of walnut to some extent, although it seems to bother some people more than others. I, unfortunately, am one of them and must take precautions when sanding walnut.

Many woods such as Redwood have historically caused irritation and toxic responses in some individuals. The recent Report on Carcinogens (Dec. 2002) issued by the National Toxicology Program of the US Dept. of Health and Human Services added wood dust to the list of known human carcinogens (along with asbestos and cigarette smoke). Dust masks have proven unreliable, often collecting dust that can be inhaled into nasal cavities and sinus passages. A properly fitted respirator and appropriate filters would be required to mitigate this risk. All this reported in April 2003 issue of Fine Homebuilding. Woodworkers would be wise to minimize exposure to these carcinogenic substances.

Ebony has a tendency to split and crack so make sure you seal it real well and don't leave the work unfinished for very long without sealing it. I've had ebony forend tips split on me that weren't sealed quickly.



[ 03-27-2003, 23:14: Message edited by: fla3006 ]

I've found some ebony prone to check when worked with power tools. Probably too much heat causing rapid shallow drying of the ebony which normally doesn't loose much moisture at all. I shape them with hand tools and don't leave an unfinished surface unprotected overnight. A coat of parrafin or stock finish will usually suffice to prevent checking for the short term.

Ebony Hints-----

Hint One--- Don't use any power tools on Ebony or the other oily woods. The heat draws the oil to the surface, and, like stocker said, causes checks and cracks from the heat.

Hint Two-- Some people are VERY allergic to tropical woods. I had a student very nearly die from anaphalatic (sp?) shock from Coco Bolo and he wasn't even working it !!!

Hint Three-- To finish ebony and the other greasy woods, wash in acetone and dry with a hairdryer a dozen times before the soaker coat of sealer.

Hint Three-- For adhesive, I've never used one better than "Tropical Hardwood Adhesive" epoxy from the RotDoctor.

Hint Four--- I've never had a shrinkage, checking, warping problem with wood that was OLD. I had a problem with the first piece of a two foot long stick, but after drying another 5 years or so it's really nice. Buy more than you need, but buy a new piece every time you need one....rotate inventory.

Hint Five--- Maccassar Ebony has more brown and even caramel color in it. It's not quite as oily, it's cheaper, but it has the same "look" as the much scarcer Gaboon Ebony if it's stained black. (I don't do it on guns but do for knife scales. It's more stable.)

Macassar ebony in itself is quite beautiful. I have a forend tip with some nice caramel streaking in the black, that matches the light english walnut stock.

It also seems to have less of a problem with rapid checking than all-black Gabon ebony, but with my tiny sample size I could be wrong on that.

Plain old acraglass gel, dyed black, goes quite well with ebony. Wipe the surface to be bonded down with acetone just before you stick it on. Be aware that checking can occur in as little as 15 MINUTES in a dry, hot climate with some of the dense / oily tropical woods.

Todd

Daga sounds like you're allergic to the stuff. you might try wetting down the dust mask with water before putting it on.

great advice! I had no idea about the splitting, power tools checking it etc. I will do the rest with block and sandpaper, a file If I have one around that will work. I am real limited on stock making tools as I haven't done any stock work before.

I will see about getting a good mask for working with it. My stepfather works for a hospital and can probably order me a real good hazmat mask or something, I will talk to him.

This time I used an Epoxy that my uncle bought for me, he is a fix it all guy that's absolutely genius with anything mechanical. Anyways, this stuff sets in under 10 minutes. I had put a spacer in and the clamps weren't tight enough and a gap got in there, I couldn't even pry the tip off, I had to cut it off the grip and start over!

Red

Dago Red---

Since you're limited for tools let me give you a short list of a few files---

You DON'T need high dollar files. All they need to be is new. Check flea markets, wholesale tool places and machine supply houses.

For most the gummy woods like ebony you need a half round bastard cut and half round second cut. Eight inch is plenty. Pick up a file carder (cleaning brush) and a can of brake clean. You're set to go.

Don't forget to buy a handle for each file....they should come in sets of file AND handle, but they dont.

Jack: When you throw an old file away you're supposed to retain the handle and use it again.

Dust masks are nearly useless, you need a properly fitting respirator to keep dust and fumes out of your lungs.

While the woods don't bother me.. i HATE black walnut boogers....

1/2 face resp, 25 bucks, adjust till it's FIRM, but not TIGHT... firm means it'll leave a slight red mark, and stays in place.

good luck... and I bet walnut dust might be an issue, too

jeffe

If your relative works for a hospital, try for a NIOSH face mask, 3M makes one that is teal blue, generally used for TB isolation. These are disposable items that come in packs of 12, about $3 each. Most any human would require a 'large,' I'm not sure what the small and medium are made to fit.

If it filters out TB, it will filter out wood dust. Bear in mind that NO respirator or mask will work, if you have facial hair sticking out from under the edge of it. When you put it on correctly (and if it fits correctly), you should be able to gently cup your hands around the mask, inhale deeply through nose, and feel it suck up tight against your face. Also keep it in a plastic bag if you store it in your work area -- not much good if you get the inside of the mask all dusty.

I find that ebony shapes nicely with files, and is very easy to get a glass smooth finish on with sandpaper. In between work sessions, I cover it with a thinned spar varnish.

Todd

[ 03-28-2003, 07:15: Message edited by: Todd Getzen ]

Geez I hate to post this one, but if all you have is the cheapie dust masks put some vegetable oil on them instead of water to filter out the dust. Not a large amount, just enough to dampen them not soak through. In a pinch it works like a champ but do yourself a favor and get a real half face mask. The individual disposable ones also work but make sure they come with an exhalation valve, all the good ones do so it is a good rule of thumb.

I know that this doesn't apply to the adverse reaction to ebony dust. But, concerning the finishing of ebony. I have worked some ebony that was so oily that the acetone and hair dryer trick wasn't enough. Your finish will not completely dry....ever. In that case the only sealer I have found to work is a 1# cut of shellac. It will seal any wood and any finish will top coat over it.

I found a dust mask that I really like - the "Dust Foe 88" I believe it is called. I got it at my local WoodCraft store for around $35. It most importantly FITS well and has a releatively heavy duty paper/cotton filter element. Those rinky-dink paper filters are a joke and one still ends up with the proverbial "wood boogers"! It is fairly light so I don't mind wearing it at all. I used to wear a respirator for most everything... but found that it was heavy & the front mounted element used to block my vision, so I started looking for something else. I really like this one...just thought I'd pass this along.

If someone has allergic reactions to toxic wood I wouldn't rely on this, but for 99% of the dusty things we do this one gets my nod!

Jeff P

Hint 6: In my opinnion an Ebony forend tip serves no purpose on a rifle other than decoration..To my mind a rifle stock should be totally functional and without such decorations that can cause you trouble in the field....Yes, I know, some of my rifles have Ebony forend tips, but I made them before age and wisdom set in. Steel grip caps are better than other materials. White lines in recoil pads leave me cold. Just a few personal idiowhatchamacallits...

Hint 7
when I am working with "dusty" items I have a clamp for my shop vac which positions the vacuum nozzle close to where I am working. Pulls away a good amount of the dust.

Ray Atkinson brings up a good point.....why have a forend tip.

They were used on early guns because they had nothing to seal end grain, so they covered it with ebony, or more often, buffalo horn.

I think a stock is incomplete without a tip, but they are a pain to do.

Other nasty woods include rosewood and hop-hornbeam (very hard and dense, a relative of beech). To make fake ebony: soak a handful of rusty scrap metal, such as nails, in a quart of vinegar for a couple of weeks (don't screw the cap down tight) until you have a foul looking black brew. Apply to walnut (or any other wood containing tannin) and let it dry. It will be very black but will need to be sanded because the vinegar raises the grain. Sand and then stain again, etc, until you get the desired color and surface. This was a standard formula for faking ebony for cheap furniture back in the 19th century.

I have never had a forend tip give me trouble anywhere, or any other decorative type of feature, for that matter. If you get rid of decorations you can shit-can fancy checkering in fact checkering in general, cheek pieces, anything with a bit of style. Sometimes the style was what separated the mundane from the exceptional. Didn't make many difference to the actual function but you knew a craftsman had his hand in it. The dull and boring is often just that. They might sell well at Wal Mart though. Hell, they do in fact.

[ 04-01-2003, 05:35: Message edited by: Customstox ]

I have never had a problem working with ebony, but I usually go from sand to seal very quickly. I also use the shop vac attached to my bench when I work with any wood. The wood I actually prefer for tips and caps is mesquite. It has a reddish color I really like for some reason. It too, I understand, can be caustic.

Wenge is dark enough and dense enough in grain to be used as a substitute. It is certainly less expensive.

I discovered I have quite a few files actually! My brother moved out last weekend and I had time to reorganize my little shop, including going through my father's old tool boxes, among other things I found an assortment of files. One is a large half-round bastard cut. I just need the second cut and the file carder and I will be ready to go back to work.

Atkinson, good question, why a tip, especially on a laminate stock. Purely functional this time, my hand didn't fit fully on the grip so I had to extend it somehow so I could get a good hold. now, this being the first time I have done a cap I wasn't surprised when I epoxied the piece on there and it was too small to shape the way I wanted. I'll get it to work though, it doesn't look half bad so far I think.

thanks all, I'll post a pic when I get it done.

Red

You will find all the details in Ebony magazine.