Went to a gunshow this weekend and picked up an early pre-64 Winchester, 30-06, serial number 39xxx (Anyone more familiar know when it was made?) with the old style safety. Gun is in decent shape, beautiful stock but it has been repaired and had recoil pad added. There is a Weaver base and the remnants of a receiver sight. (Someone beat me by one step to the Model 54 with a $325 price tag!)
First question, is this too much of a collector to rework? Bought it to redo but don't want to destroy something that deserves saving.
Next is caliber, I'm thinking either a 338-06 or a 35 Whelen. Mainly a deer gun but for future use north of the border on Moose or back in PA on bear. Suggestions on barrel length appreciated as well.
Thanks!
Posts: 714 | Location: Sorexcuse, NY | Registered: 14 February 2002
She was built between June and August 1941, according to Rule.
Unless is it was bone stock and mint, real collector value, is minimal.
Try a 35 Whelen w/23" barrel, not more than .650" @ muzzle, load any good 225 bullet, Nosler, Barnes, Swift, Northfork et al, to 2650 FPS, and go hunting something large.
The 30-06 is really a better cartridge in terms of everyday use that the others you mention. There is really no over the counter availability of 338-06's and the 35 Whelan has a very small shoulder for headspacing.
I would rather have a custom rifle with that fine old Winchester barrel on it anyway and find some gun in a bigger caliber.
Quote: (snip) the 35 Whelan has a very small shoulder for headspacing.
Is this from personal experience, or just regurgitating gun rag BS?
The only problem the whelen has had is alot of marginally competent gunsmiths that chambered the barrel too deep. The whelen has been around for some 80 years, and as a wildcat for the majority of that time, which unfortunately has lead to some poorly assembled guns.
In a properly chambered rifle, the whelen has plenty of shoulder to headspace on. It is also a much more powerful gun than the -06, and with a 225 gr bullet @ 2700 fps, will shoot as flat as the 180 gr -06 load, while being noteably more effective on game. The whelen can do everything the -06 can do, as well as many things it can't do.
Yes, most wal-marts don't carry ammo for it, though I have seen Federal 225 gr loads up here.
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
IMHO, the minimal collector value of this rifle is neither here nor there. If you want a different cartridge on a Pre 64 Model 70, that is an excellent action to build it on. And, just so you are aware, you can easily build a magnum on that action if you prefer. Any decent gunsmith can easily open the boltface and chamber to whatever you like.
A gunsmith around here opens the boltface and rechambers 30-06's to 300 Win Mag for around $100-150 and the one's I've had a chance to use are real shooters. At least this way, you don't have the expense of a new barrel and the original lines and stock are still intact. Just a little more food for thought. Keep in mind Savage99 has his biases (as we all do), and they seem to indicate that he doesn't think any gunsmiths anywhere can build or chamber a rifle properly, so just avoid gunsmiths entirely and shoot what came from the factory. I haven't figured out yet it this means he only thinks factory rifle builders know how can build a rifle properly or if he had a bad childhood experience with guns? - Sheister
Thanks for all of the opinions so far, please keep them coming.
Really hadn't given any thought to keeping the barrel or rechambering, was interested in just the action basically. This will be a custom with a new barrel and stock, rust blueing, etc. The rechambering and opening the bolt face is an interesting option, but I really don't care for magnums. Don't know why, just the way I am. Same goes for the '06, just never cared for it. Figured I'd go custom and have something of a different caliber as well.
It is unfortunate that the stock was repaired (it was inletted slightly for the receiver sight as well), there is beautiful figure in the buttstock. I may swap it over to a pre-64 270 that I have to keep from messing up the factory stock on that one. I'll have to post a couple of pictures later.
Thanks again, and please keep the opinions coming!
Posts: 714 | Location: Sorexcuse, NY | Registered: 14 February 2002
ForrestB - Good catch, I forgot about the clover-leaf tang. The 270 is in a different location, so I'll have to wait to compare. To be honest, didn't think too much when I saw the price on this gun. Any reusable parts are a bonus.
Posts: 714 | Location: Sorexcuse, NY | Registered: 14 February 2002
It's true that I come up with a devil's advocate position on a lot of custom projects. To me hunting, shooting and sailing for that matter enable me to express my independence and can do feelings.
"Either you think you can or think you can't. Either way you will be right."
Small, the date (year) of manufacture should be stamped on the underside of the barrel just in front of the receiver ring, ie, "49", for 1949, etc. I see no reason why this rifle should not be used for your .338/'06 project, or even better, a .338 Gibbs!! If it were me doing this, I'd keep the original barrel, and have it rebored to .338 and rechambered to .338 Gibbs!! The .338 Gibbs comes within 50 FPS or so of equalling .338 Win. performance, and with about 10 grains LESS powder. Good luck!!
Smallcal, we share the same unfounded prejudices, the 06 is a great catridge, maybe the best all round game getter ever made, but I've never been interested, maybe because if a guy owned a good one and was honest with himself he wouldn't have any excuse for more rifles.
Same prejudice about magnums, but maybe a little more basis for my prejudice here, I've seen tests that show the belts are almost a hinderance to good reloading. Probably more important is the lesser the catridge, it seems the better I shoot it. 270 will do all the killing I need in the lower 48, but the last year or so I have been shooting a 6mm and have made some shots that amaze me. Going belted is the wrong way for me if I want to be a good shot.
Posts: 247 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 20 March 2004
I think the value of pre-war rifles is less than post-war almost all hunters and gunnuts want to use a scope and the pre-war safety is hard to use with a scope. It is also hard to find a replacement cocking piece/safety although a Tilden replacement safety lever will work nicely---if you can find one. The take off barrels of winchesters in 30-06 is very low regardless of year production. It was the most common and it is the least in demand NOW.I think the value of pre-war rifles is less than post-war almost all hunters and gun nuts want to use a scope and the pre-war safety is hard to use with a scope. It is also hard to find a replacement cocking piece/safety although a Tilden replacement safety lever will work nicely---if you can find one. The take off barrels of Winchesters in 30-06 is very low regardless of year production. It was the most common and it is the least in demand NOW.
Posts: 2608 | Location: Moore, Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 28 December 2003
lb404 is right about the safty catch on prewar actions getting in the way of a scope. Also the bolt handle root is not quite as low as on postwars. But I still prefer the prewars, they are better fitted and finished inside and out.
