on the MRC controversies?

did they turn out to be good actions (worth the 490$ that they now want) or not?

Well, the current issue of OUtdoor Life magazine just published their annual best and worst list, and they really trashed the CZ3 which uses the Montana Action. They said the fit and finish were just terrible.

I have 4 of their actions & I think they are GREAT

22wrf - i could be wrong, but if i remember correctly the earlier MRCs came under some criticism for this, and they have since improved both features in response to these complaints. i have seen a couple of MRC actions, and while i can't speak to the fit, they finish on them looked fine to me. a little rough in the parts that are out-of-sight, but this would not me much of a concern to me.

if i can find a way to afford one, i would really like to use to use it for a 6.5/06 project. i am considering giving it the ackley treatment, so far have not found a reason NOT to. their barrels look pretty good as well; i am also consideirng those.

For a .375 H&H, .416 Mag, or .458 Lott length magnum action they're worth every nickel of that cost. For a standard .30-06 length I'd go find a used M-70,

I'm very happy with my MRC 1999 in 404 Jeff!!!

22wrf, were they commenting on the stock or the action. The stock I saw on one, while it had decent figure for a factory rifle, had terrible gaps all over the place. The action was better than the one I bought though as far as polishing out casting marks in the tighter places on the action.

The cover of this month's issue of The Fouling Shot is a photo of one in .416 WSM. It is one of two actions I bought at the introductory price, and actually turned out to be the more roughly finished of the two.

None-the-less with NO additional polishing, it has turned into a very nice elk/moose/grizzly rifle. Reliable, strong, and feeds well using a very wide-flat meplat 350 gr. cast bullet (the mould for which is available from Mountain Moulds). Moves that cast 350 gr. bullet at well over 2,200 fps and CAN move it 100-200 fps faster on request. But, at slightly less than 8lbs total gun weight with scope up, it has all the recoil necessary for American game as is.

I wonder if the PH model will ever make it out ??

I own two of their actions being used for a couple of 404 Jeffery rifles. They look and feel great!

I owned one and liked it very much, the fit and finish was just fine, would buy another. I also looked closely at the CZ3s at the NRA show, looked good to me.

Montana actions don't impress me. I don't care for investment-cast receivers, and I don't care for the quality, fit and finish of the Montana actions I've examined. They're "reasonably-price" for a reason, and that reason has everything to do with quality.

You get what you pay for in just about everything in life, and this is no exception.....

AD

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Montana actions don't impress me. I don't care for investment-cast receivers, and I don't care for the quality, fit and finish of the Montana actions I've examined. They're "reasonably-price" for a reason, and that reason has everything to do with quality.

You get what you pay for in just about everything in life, and this is no exception.....

AD

Yet the M-70 Classics you praise have to go to Echols for 80 seperate steps before you will take them hunting.

Howard, 80??? I thought it was 185.

At times I get tired of Allens constant holier than thou attitude towards guns connected to his big pocketbook references. The other times I am sleeping.

Howard, this is a forum, and I have the right to state my opinion, even if you don't like it. Everyone else seems to state their preferences and the reasons for those preferences around here, and I'll do the same, with or without your approval.

I didn't talk about a specific gunmaker in this thread, but I suspect if I was anyone else who stated that I preferred, let's say, a Mauser 98 action versus the Montana and I was known to be associated with any other gunmaker, no one would have uttered a peep against anything I had to say.

Chic, as usual, your insecurities are showing. You're no policeman of thought, and I could care less as to what your "self-righteous" opinion is of me. I never will.........

AD

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Howard, this is a forum, and I have the right to state my opinion, even if you don't like it. Everyone else seems to state their preferences and the reasons for those preferences around here, and I'll do the same, with or without your approval.AD

"I don't care for the quality, fit and finish of the Montana actions I've examined. They're "reasonably-price" for a reason, and that reason has everything to do with quality."

Allen it’s not about opinions by themselves it’s about consistency in your opinions. Why would you take the time to state the above when the exact same is true of your vaunted M-70 Classic? They are reasonably priced for a reason and there are good reasons why you personally choose to spend money having them totally worked over for your own use. Those reasons mainly have to do with the fact that fit and finish are not up to par, just like with the Montana action. Yet one you praise and the other you trash.

it's looking more and more like this is the action i will go with. one factor that is also good is that they are unique and as far as i can tell, of good design. i could spen only slightly less for a chas daly action or even less for an old military mauser or springfield, but being from montana, i would like to support a montana business. it also looks to me like MRC has been willing to bend overe backwards for its customers and potential customers, and that is also a huge point in their favor.

if i had more money to spend on something more prestiegous, maybe i would and maybe i wouldn't. there comes a point when you stop paying for quality and start paying for a nameplate. i have never been close to that point, but it seems to me as though there is no reason to go farther than i have.

i do appreciate all comments, including yours, allen! it is always good to get as many sides as possible.

Can the MRC long action be used for a 404 Jeffery? thought the 404 has a case head at .543" and the bolt face on the MRC long was .534". Usable?

Tas

If you are going to go with a Montana action, you might want to visit Jack Belk's website to see how he polishes out a Montana action to make it look a bit better than what comes from the factory.

will do! thanks!

JeffMc,
Although the bolt face does come standard in .534 you can have it opened up by a qualified gunsmith with no problems. We have had several customers using our actions to make 404 Jeff's Hope that helps.
Have a great weekend everyone, you too allen!
Jeff
MRC

MontanaJeff

Will MRC do the work for a barreled action?

JeffMc, what is the status of the full size magnum action ?

JeffMc,
Give me a call, we don't do that work ...per say, but I can get you in the right direction. Although with all the great gunsmiths online here, I'm sure you could get one of them to do it. It's really a customers choice.
Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by MontanaJeff:
JeffMc,
Although the bolt face does come standard in .534 you can have it opened up by a qualified gunsmith with no problems. We have had several customers using our actions to make 404 Jeff's Hope that helps.
Have a great weekend everyone, you too allen!
Jeff
MRC

That's one way....the other way is to actually rebate the rims on the cartridges.....and I've done this. In this manner I can install a .416 Mag or .458 Lott barrel in the future.

What is this, "let's hate on allen day, day"??
What did he say?
"Montana actions don't impress me"

I don't know about you but I don't have an Echols Legend, or a David Miller, or a Dakota. But IF I did, an MRC 1999, would not impress me much either!

Having said that mine is at McMillan right now being stocked. I am a left handed shooter that got tired of waiting around on a M70 Left handed action to roll around (still havn't got my hands on one), I wanted to get started. MRC was an option. Allen actually helped me out a lot in picking out my caliber of choice, barrel lenght, barrel contour, etc. Who to have the stock work done by. Who to have the finish re-done by (sorry MontanaJeff, the finish was weak)

I have talked to Allen about my MRC action, Dary Echols, and Mark Penrod. None of them "Hate" them. It's just not there choice, based on their taste. If that cost some "Coin", so be it. No need to be jealous.
Look I see it this way, when I get my McMillan stocked and bedded, MRC M1999, in the field this fall, it will probably be nicer than 90% of the junk I see toted into the woods. I will have around 2 gran in the gun not including the optics. It's not junk, but it's not a Legend either. Like allen said you get what you pay for. But I'm happy.

FLA3006

Did you confuse me with MontanaJeff? I assume your asking about the PH action and maybe Montanajeff can post some info - seems to be alot of interest - myself included.

MontanaJeff

I will give you a call as I ahve several questions.

Mark G;

The pieces of junk that I see in the field are the ones that couldn't hit anything no matter how they looked. It is a bonus if it looks nice and shoots well but shooting straight is the primary concern for me.

JeffMc

Sorry JeffMc! Yes, I meant MontanaJeff.

I should read more carefully myself since it seems much of the friction on these boards occurs when folks don't read the posts carefully.

I have two short actions and like them but as I've said before, they are not small or particularly short. The MCR short action is only an eigth or three sixteenths short of being exactly the same length as my CZ 550 Magnum 416 Rigby action. They are not for building light mountain type rifles. I can't wait to see the PH. I bet it will be a good start for a 15 lb DGR.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark G:
None of them "Hate" them. It's just not there choice, based on their taste.

I'm not so sure it's taste as it is availability of parts. The Mod 70 simply has way more parts available.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark G:
It's not junk, but it's not a Legend either. Like allen said you get what you pay for.

The legend was nothing more than a model 70 until it was turned into the Legend. If you compare the Mod 70 to the MRC it is a more appropriate comparison. You'll find they compare favorably if not better. Similarly, if you took the MRC action and gave it the legend treatment I doubt anyone here would refuse it, not even Allen.

I for one don't dislike Allen because of his money, I'm sure he worked hard to get where he is. It's his attitude I don't care for.

Tas-
FWIW I have one in 330 Dakota and it turned out beautifully. In my opinion its a better designed action than the M70--it handles gas better with full shroud and substantial gas ports in bolt, not cone breeched, dovetail race, and importantly comes with beautiful ONE-PIECE Williams bottom metal. I would suggest that you request one "as cast" as the boys at the buffer get a bit too enthusiastic about things at times (mine and others I've seen.) You could stone one yourself in short order and know that things are straight. Jack's site is a good start (I wouldn't worry about doing the bolt raceways, they smooth up with use fine. I think the MRC's are one of the best designed actions anywhere near their price range--a fully worked over 98 being the competition I think. Plus they are made here; the guys are great, run up to Kalispell and pick out the one you want.

quote:

It's his attitude I don't care for.

Poleax, if you mean the way he gives sound advice, 99.9% of the time, and is willing to take the time to respond to people, and yes give his blunt opinions.......Then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
It's all good.

Honestly, I shouldn't even post to some of these, because I am a little biased, and I don't want to see anyone holding their opinions back.. I really like to see some of these concerns and Allens is a good one for us. If I personally had a ton of money it would go straight into finishing the actions, making the parts tighter, etc, however if we did too much wouldn't we have to raise the price? But, please, keep the opinions coming! The only way anyone can make a product better is if they get feedback from the people who use them. I'll try to get a post out about the PH and the Mini soon! Thanks all!
Jeff

Originally posted by snowcat:
"..it handles gas better with full shroud and substantial gas ports in bolt, not cone breeched, dovetail race,..."

I understand now what a coned breech is and what a C-ring or H-ring breech is. And I know what the dovetail race is. But can somebody briefly explain the path the gas takes in a Model 70 vs a 1999? Why is gas handling better one way or the other? I thought the gas was set up to escape via the hole on the left side of the front bridge of the action and add'l gas rolled down the lug race to the back of either action where they were diverted from the shooter's face by the shroud? I appreciate any clarification info.

"Jack's site is a good start"

Can somebody post the address to Jack Belk's site.

Thanks,

Steve

Its not Hate Allen Day day, its pick on Allen Day day and he is a big boy. Allen knows, because I have told him, how much I respect his experience and knowledge. I just think his often stated bias towards M-70's is showing here. I really doubt that the fit and finish of the M-70 Classic of today is on par with the fit and finish of the MRC.

Jack goes by the name Hotater

http://community.webshots.com/user/hotater

And I for one sure wish that he was still posting here and doing gun work.

As for actions, one has to wonder how those folks in Germany using primitive machines and under primitive conditions so many years ago made such beautiful actions as the 1909 Argentines that are so finely finished and butter smooth. Or the beautifuly fit and finished G.33/40 actions ?????

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
As for actions, one has to wonder how those folks in Germany using primitive machines and under primitive conditions so many years ago made such beautiful actions as the 1909 Argentines that are so finely finished and butter smooth. Or the beautifuly fit and finished G.33/40 actions ?????

time and experience

If I'm not missing something, gas can go one of 4 ways away from the cartridge. When everything goes well, it goes down the barrel. All rifles seem to handle that OK. When things do not go well, that's when the engineering of the action comes in to keep the rifle together and gas out of your face.

In the event of a ruptured case, massive overload, obstructed barrel, pierced primer etc. the brass does not seal the chamber and the gas is going to come back through the action. The hole in the receiver ring will channel some of that out of the action and away from your face. If it makes it farther back it will encounter the firing pin hole and bolt lug race way at about the same time. If you look at the Win 70 classic you'll see two holes about mid way back on the bolt that face down into the magazine when the rifle is in battery. The Mauser 98 and MRC have long slots that serve the same purpose though probably better due to their size. A Savage 110 also has a tiny hole that may serve the same purpose which is to dump gas into the mag well. This seems like your first line of defense in the case of a pierced primer.

Where the MRC and M70 really diverge is how they handle gas and particles that make it into the left race way. The Mauser's thumbcut supposedly really helped divert gas but, of course neither the 70 or 1999 retained that. What the MRC did keep is the full gas blocking bolt shroud of the 98 Mauser. If you look at the M70 you'll see that the bolt shroud fits inside the receiver and does not block the travel of gas down the raceway to your eye. The Mauser and MRC shroud completely covers the rear of the receiver preventing this. Good design in my opinion.

Barnsness wrote an article recently talking about how he'd had cases let go on Mausers, 70's and 700's. Mausers were the least unpleasant, the M70's the worst.

Sorry this was windy but you really have to appreciate the engineering genius that went in the 98 and smartly retained and refined in the MRC 1999.

Snowcat,

Thanks a lot!

And if I can bother you just a little more, can you (or somebody) differentiate the cone breech vs the H or C-ring breech?

Thanks again,

Steve

Can someone please explain to me how any type of machining or gunsmithing can make a cast action into a forged one?

The bottom metal that comes with the MRC action is no Williams. It is a cheap copy with hidious modifications to the trigger bow. Nothing more. The fit on the ones I looked at was so poor that concious effort was required to latch them.

As for Allen Day's attitude, he is one of the most decent people I have ever dealt with, and the testimony of those who know and have dealt with him personally is pretty telling.

Chuck