Pictures of Jack Belk's Rust Bluing - Warning, BIG picture!

05 April 2003, 14:59

DeBee

Oh man, that is perrrfect... Nice even texture and rich color.

As someone who spent the better part of the evening laying my pet Sako project into a wire wheel to get the bite of the acid to even out on a blown rust blue- I can attest to the superior durability of a fine rust blue. Basically, the wheel couldn't touch it... I'm just trying to knock down the etch a bit with some sucess.

What solution was used in this case?

05 April 2003, 16:17

<JBelk>

DeeBee---

I've never done two rust blues just alike..... and this one was an experiment too. [Smile]

I used Angiers C-13, Swiss Armory Blue cut with water about 50/50 to start with. It took 13 coats to get a beautiful pale blue like a G&H or Hoffman but it had some darker blotches that only bothered me more as I looked at and thought about them.

I had already oiled and waxed the barrel and action (hoping it would look better, but didn't) and decided to make a bold step.

I degreased/waxed with acetone then several hot washes with 409 and then blow dried. I finally got it cleaned good enough there was almost no residue from the rinse water.

I then applied a coat of Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown and Degreaser.

I *think* this is C-13 with added nitric and a surfactant, or soap. In thirty minutes I had activity and at 10 hours it was an uneven, mostly pale red, rust. I then applied another coat over the old without carding first.

(I never use cotton balls or Q-Tips...old, clean cotton socks is all. I use a stir stick to force the cloth into the tight places.)

Another eight hours and the rust was even, medium red and showed signs of being "ripe". I boiled and carded with a .0025 wire wheel at about 1000 rpm and applied another coat. About 12 hours later I again boiled and carded.....then again.

The receiver looked very good as brushed with the wheel. The barrel looked like it had leprosy. There was a buildup and speckling that was uglier than before! [Frown]

I remembered Steve Hughes saying he blended with ScotchBrite brown and I happened to have a sheet.

A MIRACLE!!! Carding with the ScotchBrite got an even luster that had me panting over it. Even in the sunlight it looked good. I oiled it.

Also, I finished the partial job for Ray. Someone would REALLY have to know what they were looking at to tell the new blue from the old.

05 April 2003, 16:53

Customstox

Looks great Jack. I love it when that final coat just brings it out and you know you are there. Rust bluing is long, tedious work but is so rewarding. Nothing else like it.

05 April 2003, 17:35

InfoSponge

quote:
Originally posted by Customstox:
Rust bluing is long, tedious work but is so rewarding. Nothing else like it.

Actually, I've begun to wonder whether there is.

In studying case hardening technologies, I've come across ferritic nitrocarburizing/oxidizing. In essence, what that mouthful amounts to is a combination of a carbonitriding case hardening with an oxidation finish that leaves you with a three part surface composed of a diffusion zone of about 10Rc harder than the core; an extremely hard, single phase epsilon layer (white layer) of about 75Rc; and a Fe3O4 (a.k.a. black oxide, magnetite, or rust blue) outermost layer. The process can be applied to 4140, 4340, and other typical gunmaking steels. What you end up with is a very hard, very slick, very durable case hardening and traditional black finish that is more corrosion resistant than stainless steel or hard chrome -- and all of that is accomplished in a single process. Best of all, it's done at a low enough temperature that warpage or other distortion isn't a factor.

Looks very cool to me, but here's some links if you want to check it out:

http://www.geartechnology.com/mag/archive/ferrit.htm
http://www.dynablue.com/dynablue.html
http://www.erie.com/techbul.htm

There's also a similar process using pulsed plasma (one of the trade names is Plasox), but I haven't found anyone in the US that offers that service.

05 April 2003, 18:15

Customstox

Infosponge, your name fits you, lol. That looks interesting but the price (2nd link) looks a bit stiff. Am I right in reading that they want $2,000 to do one die? Still looks like an interesting product.

05 April 2003, 18:30

InfoSponge

quote:
Originally posted by Customstox:
Infosponge, your name fits you, lol. That looks interesting but the price (2nd link) looks a bit stiff. Am I right in reading that they want $2,000 to do one die? Still looks like an interesting product.

Yeah, price is the big question. I don't know how much it costs. I read it as $2,000 for one die, too. On the other hand, the shops that do this all look to be clustered around Detroit and do a lot of work for the automotive industry. That could be one big die! The other price hints I've been able to find show prices less than hard chrome and about 1/4 the cost of titanium nitriding processes. That could put you back into the $150 range, which would be much more attractive. The furnaces that they use for this are pretty big, so I bet just doing one or two actions or barrels would be prohibitively expensive unless you could get them to slip your stuff into an unused spot while processing another larger job.

I'm not in any position to follow through on any of this, but I'm glad at least someone else found the idea interesting.

05 April 2003, 19:43

GSP7

I dont know much about rust blueing process.

Do you get the black color as you card with the wire wheel? Is that when your red rust turns black? Or does it change when you boil it.

Id like to learn the process

05 April 2003, 19:57

InfoSponge

Chic,

Take a look at the connecting rod die example in the third link. That's a $3800 die that costs $330 to nitrocarburize, and $1200 to chrome plate. As a rough ballpark figure, that die would appear to be about the same size and complexity as a barreled action, so maybe....

06 April 2003, 04:16

<JBelk>

GSP-7--

Do a search here and at HuntAmerica.com for rust blue. There're several thousand words on the subject.

06 April 2003, 04:58

Scrollcutter

Jack

Very nice work.

Also a word of thanks for all of your input into the forum. Your gunsmithing knowledge is impressive, to say the least.

Roger

06 April 2003, 05:48

Atkinson

I might add that Jack just did a Mauser for me and it sure looks good, he can also match a finish if the original gun is rust blued. All I have seen come out of Jacks shop is excellent, he is a perfectionist...Probably one of the premier metal smiths in the modern world.

Now that doesn't mean I agree with everything he sez, we still have some heated arguments.

06 April 2003, 05:58

<JBelk>

Ray---

It sounds like you're tired of buying lunch to me!

I've got that 300 feeding like the chamber is Linda Lovelace. I'll take it to town Tuesday.

[ 04-05-2003, 20:00: Message edited by: JBelk ]

06 April 2003, 06:49

Mark

quote:
Originally posted by JBelk:
Ray---

<snipped text>
I've got that 300 feeding like the chamber is Linda Lovelace.

Groan!!!! Where'd you hear that one!!!

When you mention you blended with scotchbrite brown, do you do this instead of carding on the wheel or in addition to carding with the wheel?

06 April 2003, 10:28

<JBelk>

Mark--

The Linda Lovelace reference was original.....just a sickness I have......

The Scotchbrite carding was in addition to the wire wheel carding.

I should have photograghed the barrel... it looked like the bottom of an airsick bag with speckles and patches of black with rusty edges.

I took the Scotchbrite to it thinking it would take so much blue that I'd need more coats to finish bluing, but instead it cut the ugly stuff and left good blue underneath.

Steven Dodd Hughes is my hero!!