Browning Boss System

15 January 2025, 08:05

Came by what appears to be a new take off Browning barrel with the Boss system . Just curious if anyone has any experiece with the Boss. Does adjusting this thing actually decrease the group sizes ?? Thanks for any input

15 January 2025, 08:20

bigbull

Yes it acts like a muzzle brake and barrel tuner, Winchester/Browning were ahead of their time with the BOSS System.
This type of accessory today will set you back from $150 to $300 Canadian in my neck of the woods.
BB

15 January 2025, 17:27

jeffeosso

When FN brought the BOSS system to the US from French sniper rifles.. true story.. the French or FN made a sniper system and tuned the barrels to the lots of the march grade ammo.. when you change from one kot to the other, you changed the BOSS to match the ammo.

15 January 2025, 18:32

snowman

Thanks for that. With a micrometer like adjustment what did most do? Start at 0 and try every number up to 10? or start at 5 and try up and down(6& 4) and then go the direction there was some improvement ??

15 January 2025, 19:13

Bobster

https://usermanual.wiki/Browni...03714.429346432/help

quote:
Originally posted by snowman:
Thanks for that. With a micrometer like adjustment what did most do? Start at 0 and try every number up to 10? or start at 5 and try up and down(6& 4) and then go the direction there was some improvement ??

15 January 2025, 19:19

dpcd

Most guys didn't have the patience to actually adjust them, and gave up, and I have cut many of them off.
Another dumb idea just to sell rifles to the gullible shooting public.
But yes, you could fine tune your barrel in one of two ways; just like working up loads. Either move it up in small increments until a node was reached that gave smaller groups, or adjust it like Artillery and make bold adjustments and work from there.
Here is how to adjust them; they even give you a Sweet Spot Chart to start from. They guarantee one hole groups.
https://www.browning.com/suppo...-0mrbK41HQkys5YpDG9F

15 January 2025, 19:21

dpcd

Bob we posted this at the same time!

15 January 2025, 19:57

Hipshoot

I believe that you mare moving the weight of the barrel forward or backwards (longer/shorter) which would change the harmonics of the barrel.

Hip

15 January 2025, 22:58

dpcd

Correct; there are "barrel tuners" on the market too.

16 January 2025, 17:24

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
I believe that you mare moving the weight of the barrel forward or backwards (longer/shorter) which would change the harmonics of the barrel.

Hip

AND left and right .. well, frankly, 360 degs -- as barrels don't just WHIP in the vertical, there is also a good deal of other directions -- and you can't stop it, but you CAN "tune" it ...

and if you can get it to release at the same point, all the time, that's an additive factor in precision (which can lead to accuracy)

19 January 2025, 18:30

snowman

Thanks again for the info. I can see this is going to keep me busy for a while this summer. after viewing the Sweet Spot chart I see for the 300 Win with 180 gr bullets the sweet spot for Win ammo is 0.5 and for Federal 180 gr ammo the sweet spot is 8.5. Since my rifle will likely never see factory ammo the sweet spot chart is pretty much useless to me. Looks like working up a load and then shooting a 3 shot group at each setting from 0 to 9 to see for any improvement in group size

19 January 2025, 18:42

Bobster

You could adjust it to the halfway mark and develop your load there. Then shoot groups lower and higher than that point to find your "sweet spot".

20 January 2025, 01:40

snowman

Bob I appreciate your input. I don't quite understand what the difference is starting from 0 and working up to 9. Or starting at 5 and working up and down to 9 and 0 ?????

20 January 2025, 01:46

dpcd

There is a reason they didn't make this thing any more.

20 January 2025, 02:13

Bobster

If you alternately fire + and - groups you will likely pickup a trend and focus your efforts one way or another. Lets say you work a load up at 5 that prints 1.5 inches. You shoot a group at 4 that prints 1.75 inches . Then one at 6 that prints 1 inch. You can then focus on the higher numbers rather than run through all of the low numbers. But, if you don't care about time and rounds, then starting at 0 and shooting 3 shot groups at every number is fine.

quote:
Originally posted by snowman:
Bob I appreciate your input. I don't quite understand what the difference is starting from 0 and working up to 9. Or starting at 5 and working up and down to 9 and 0 ?????

20 January 2025, 08:59

Peter Connan

If you do it with 3-shot groups you will be chasing your tail forever.

You need larger sample sizes.

21 January 2025, 20:44

Saeed

This got me thinking.

This needs a relatively comprehensive test.

Difficult with center fire for the amount of shooting that needs to be done.

But, what about doing it with a 22 rimfire??

I have a tuner that has 22 full turns.

And each turn has 24 clicks!

At each of the 22 full turns.

That is 528 combinations!!

Quite impossible to do, as my thought is shooting 5, 5 shot groups each.

So, how about shooting groups at each full turns.

Then once the best group is found, shoot a group at each click, either side??

Would 50 yards or 100 yards be best??

21 January 2025, 21:16

dpcd

All this is why this ugly contraption screwed onto the muzzle of your rifle, is no longer made; tedius to make it work, with limited improvement; just take the rifle as is and kill stuff with it. Gaining .1 MOA is not worth the time, expense, and trouble.
How many custom rifle makers use them? Zero.
How many of you top successful big game hunters use them? One.
I would not take one for free.
If it was such a good idea, they would still make them.
Concentrate on load development, traditional good shooting techniques, and go hunting. As S pointed out, there are almost unlimited permutations/combinations/iterations involved in testing the boss, and ammo loads.
Of course the boss was intended for factory loads.....

22 January 2025, 06:11

Saeed

Well, we shoot quite a lot for the same of shooting.

Might as well try to see what the results might be.

All is punching hole in paper!

Just got 10,000 rounds of ELEY MATCH.

Would be good to put it to good use.

22 January 2025, 09:00

Saeed

Well, that backfired!

I thought I will use an ANSCHUTZ 5418 MS-R rifle for this.

Tried the ELEY MATCH.

All shot one hole in varying size!

Not going to work.

So I will see what ammo I have that is not as accurate, in qualtity, and try that.

22 January 2025, 11:23

Saeed

Problem solved!

Moved targets to 100 yards.

I will post my results on the RIMFIRE FORUM!

22 January 2025, 18:23

snowman

I should maybe clarify what I intend to try. I was going to shoot 3 shots a each of the settings from 0 to 9 for a total of 30 shots.I was hoping that I would see some improvement in geoup size. Lets say the group at # 5 was the best. There is 10 small adjustments between each full number. I would again shoot 3 shot groups from 4.1 to 5.9 for a total of 60 more rds. In the second round of firing I would use Bobster idea and shoot 4.9 them 5.1. 4.8 and 5.2 and so on. Maybe I wouldnt have to shoot all 60 rds to find the sweetest spot for my rifle. So in about 90 rds I hope to see if this contraption stays on the barrel or maybe comes off and a thread protector is installed. Thanks again for the input.

23 January 2025, 06:06

Saeed

In my experience, single shot groups, whether 3 or 5, do not give an indication of what a load would do.

I found at least 5, 5-shot groups are needed to give an indication of the accuracy of a particular load.

That is what I am going to do.

24 January 2025, 14:06

Peter Connan

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
In my experience, single shot groups, whether 3 or 5, do not give an indication of what a load would do.

I found at least 5, 5-shot groups are needed to give an indication of the accuracy of a particular load.

That is what I am going to do.

Agreed, but this gets more complicated.
Will the best setting today still be the best setting next season, or if you go up or down a couple of thousand feet in elevation?

And if it does change, is there a shorter way to re-adjust it?

24 January 2025, 15:23

gasgunner

Shoot three shots on a Monday, three on a Tuesday, three on Wednesday, three on Thursday, three on Friday, three on Saturday, and three on Sunday. At the end you will prove that your rifle shoots great on one day, terrible on another, and just average on the other five days. I mean you tested it, it has to be right.

John

24 January 2025, 15:32

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Connan:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
In my experience, single shot groups, whether 3 or 5, do not give an indication of what a load would do.

I found at least 5, 5-shot groups are needed to give an indication of the accuracy of a particular load.

That is what I am going to do.

Agreed, but this gets more complicated.
Will the best setting today still be the best setting next season, or if you go up or down a couple of thousand feet in elevation?

And if it does change, is there a shorter way to re-adjust it?

What you state will affect the rifles no matter what.

27 January 2025, 08:40

Peter Connan

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Connan:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
In my experience, single shot groups, whether 3 or 5, do not give an indication of what a load would do.

I found at least 5, 5-shot groups are needed to give an indication of the accuracy of a particular load.

That is what I am going to do.

Agreed, but this gets more complicated.
Will the best setting today still be the best setting next season, or if you go up or down a couple of thousand feet in elevation?

And if it does change, is there a shorter way to re-adjust it?

What you state will affect the rifles no matter what.

Of course.
However, in my mind the only thing a tuner can do that you can't achieve at the reloading bench is to theoretically give you a simpler way to compensate for conditions than taking your reloading tools to the range.

But that would only actually be truly usable if there was some sort of formula or recipe to tune it, and that doesn't really exist.

Well, Eric Cortina says he has a recipe but he doesn't want to share it, because that's his competitive advantage.

27 January 2025, 08:47

Saeed

I am beginning to think Browning got the idea same as I did.

They had made a muzzle break, and found that the rifle shot better with it.

So they developed this system, which might give better results.

My test on 22 rimfire is almost finished.

Got some interesting results, but nothing to justify a tuner.

As you suggested, reloading gets much better results.

27 January 2025, 17:59

jeffeosso

Here's the manual, fwiw
https://www.browning.com/suppo...rs-manuals/boss.html

28 January 2025, 21:51

airgun1

Years ago my so traded a one hole 722 in 222 or a brand new Browning A Bolt Gold Medallion in 223 with a BOSS. The gun did not shoot! The BOSS did nothing as well. You could take it off and it didn't affect anything either.

A good friend and top shooter told my son he could make it shoot and paid up for the gun. He gave up.

We called Browning and they told us the BOSS just doesn't work well in smaller calibers such as 243 and 223 and that they were discontinuing it. This was over 20 years ago.

I would not waste my time experimenting with a BOSS on a small caliber. I did see them work on big calibers and they did very well!

29 January 2025, 09:00

Saeed

I am finished, and will post the results on the Rimfire Forum.

Not really sure there is anything in it at all.

Variations between groups at the same settings, and the averages, seem not to support this at all.

29 January 2025, 18:04

Bobster

You know, there is a lot of dang truth in that statement. How many times have we worked up a load that was accurate, only to be disappointed on the next session? A lot of day to day human variability. I guess the only way to do a proper test is to shoot from a machine rest.

quote:
Originally posted by gasgunner:
Shoot three shots on a Monday, three on a Tuesday, three on Wednesday, three on Thursday, three on Friday, three on Saturday, and three on Sunday. At the end you will prove that your rifle shoots great on one day, terrible on another, and just average on the other five days. I mean you tested it, it has to be right.

John

30 January 2025, 05:41

sambarman338

I don't like the look of it (or any muzzle brake - they remind me of the Mossberg monster that made my ears ring as a kid). However, if the tuning just comes from weight at the end of the barrel, how does this relate to open sights?

Do rifles that have ramp front sights installed or removed get some change in their accuracy from the process?

If so, I wonder if the ramp could be drilled and tapped in from the front end, to be filled with a grub screw that could be turned in or out to change the balance. This would at least look less like plumbing.