I couldn't find a 700 action on Remington's website to buy, so what are my options?
Is a donor generally cheaper?
Better to buy donor and have re worked or buy new?
Remember, I am on a budget

Remington is one of (probably the only one of) the few big-time manufacturers that sells just actions. But I have heard in these pages that availability can be spotty. You might try an auction site. There was one in the AR classifieds a long time ago for $400. Brownells was selling them a while back. They may still be into that. If I was wearing your underwear, it probably wouldn't fit. But that is beside the point. If I was looking to build a gun, I'd look at the custom-action makers. Barney Lawton sells a Remington clone for about $800. For that, you get the benefits of CNC and EDM processing that you just don't get with a mass-produced action. Start with something that's maybe a bit more expensive than a run-of-the-mill Remmy, but have something when it's done that is unique, high-quality, valuable and YOURS. Have something nobody else has, and pass it on to your kids...

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
Remember, I am on a budget

I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard those words uttered.

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Barney Lawton sells a Remington clone for about $800.

Barney left the range a year or more ago.

Lawton Machine does offer some great products.

As does Stiller, Borden, Surgeon, Phoenix, name your favorite maker here.

Personally - I can't think of too many instances where I'd use a production action anymore for the money.

quote:

Originally posted by fireball168:

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Barney Lawton sells a Remington clone for about $800.

Barney left the range a year or more ago.

Lawton Machine does offer some great products.

As does Stiller, Borden, Surgeon, Phoenix, name your favorite maker here.

Personally - I can't think of too many instances where I'd use a production action anymore for the money.

Agreed and it will have a better resale value...

If you absolutely want a factory remington action, you'll probably have better luck buying a used whole rifle and breaking it down. Deals are out there if you look for them. If you plan to have any trueing work done to the action, forget the factory action and get a custom action. By the time you pay for the factory action, postage both ways for smith work, labor and parts on improving the action you will have gotten the cost to what a custom action would have run you. If you ever decided to sell the gun you will eat all the cost of the work done to a factory action. I don't know anyone who would add value when buying a used rifle because the action had been trued, too many unknowns. With a custom action you know exactly what you are getting and so does the person who you sell it to later on.

Ok, so if I buy a custom action that is already trued etc, if I send it to Hart to put a barrel on it, will they ask me to have it trued to that barrel?
Would you buy a barrel from Hart and have a local guy put it on, or can they do a better job?

Some of the so called custom clone actions aren't what they are cracked up to be.

I think if you stay with a Stiller, Kelbly, Surgeon, or Pierce, you will be good to go.
If they ask to true one of those you better find a better smith. Depending on your budget, it may be better if you put the project off until you have sufficient funds. If you go on with it without the needed funds to do it right, you will have a mess on your hands.
Butch

Butch says

quote:

If you go on with it without the needed funds to do it right, you will have a mess on your hands.

I agree. Collect the money and then slowly and intelligently direct it to well-qualified 'smiths who will do outstanding work. It will take time, but you will have a Rolls-Royce when you're done-- something you will be very proud to own and use. Nice thing about a custom action is you may be able to have a personalized serial number placed on it. My MRC M1999 has a personal s/n on it, and my 'smith laser-engraved his name as "Gunsmithing by" on one side of the barrel (right in front of the receiver and right above the stock) and my name as "Property of" on the other. Very nice personal touches...

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:

Agreed and it will have a better resale value...

I didn't think you were allowed to use "custom" and "resale value" in the same sentence.



In my neck of the woods, during the non-hunting season, you can buy a Remingtion rifle in a pawn shop cheaper than you can buy a Brownell's 700 action alone.

Oxymoron; N A combination of contradictory words.
Example, Custom, Budget

Duckear,
In my part of the country you can buy a new 700 rifle cheaper than the hock shops sell used.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Duckear,
In my part of the country you can buy a new 700 rifle cheaper than the hock shops sell used.
Butch

Hock shops buy low and sell high, but their asking price is rarely "the price"

If they express themselves as being firm on a price I consider "high", I first suggest they were "High" when they marked the price and move on to suggesting they were a product of several generations of incest from a gene pool that wasn't to healthy to begin with...

Somewhere in this process they either get flexible on the price or they ask me to leave and never return... frankly the latter is something I fully intended anyway...
(But it rarely comes to that)

Usually a customer with cash in hand and getting less profit, but SOME profit, is
very persuasive.... because it's better than having stuff gathering dust because it is priced unrealistically.

More often than not if I look at something more than once some store employee will start trying to make a deal...

Ad the deal they are quick to offer only gives you a good clue wiat the real deal is.

Don't act ambivelent, BE ambivelent.

Be ready to walk, if they are really willing to make a deal they will make a better offer.

And even if they do let you get out the door
they will often re-think their position so if you come back later they are often more flexible.

Remember pawnshops don't want merchandise
they want cash, cash they can loan out.

Getting rid of forfeited assets is the inconvenient side of the buisness.

Making a profit is "nice", getting their cash back is critical.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
Ok, so if I buy a custom action that is already trued etc, if I send it to Hart to put a barrel on it, will they ask me to have it trued to that barrel?
Would you buy a barrel from Hart and have a local guy put it on, or can they do a better job?

If Hart insists on trueing up a custom action, tell'em to strap on a rubber first and kiss you when they're done. But seriously, if a smith wants to true up a stock action before rebarrel then I completely understand since they are staking their reputation on it. If a smith insists on trueing up a custom action, they'd better have a damn good reason why and they'd better be right. I'm not into wasting money and getting screwed by gunsmiths. I'm not following you on the "trued to that barrel" part, an action is either square and true or it isn't, has nothing to do with the particular barrel.

There are lots of people that can do the barrel work for you. I don't know anyone who shoots a Hart or has had a tube installed by them, but I doubt they can do it any better than any other decent 'smith.

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
I couldn't find a 700 action on Remington's website to buy, so what are my options?
Is a donor generally cheaper?
Better to buy donor and have re worked or buy new?
Remember, I am on a budget

I don't believe it is possible to tell you which way you are best off. I don't know what you want to build, or what you plan to use it for. Nor do I know what your budget is.

We are all on a budget, some are just larger than others.

At any rate, for most people, I think it is a mistake right out of the gate to worry about how much the rifle can be sold for somewhere down the road. There are too many variables to consider for that to realistically come into play as a "heavy (factor)" in your decision. You might die. The economy might get considerably worse. The laws about selling or owning guns could change. You may never WANT to sell it. And so on.

For many people, an action from a used gun, together with a new "take-off" barrel will work out just fine for hunting varmints or big game and cost less for the complete rifle and scope than just a custom action by itself will cost.

You can get perfectly good varmint rifles or big game rifles put together that way for well under $600. Depending on the scope, it could be less than $500 total, if you use something like one of the new Redfields. I personally have several such rifles, so I know that is not a daydream.

If, on the other hand, you want to shoot benchrest competition, and WIN regularly, you'd better have a budget about 6 times that...and that's just for the rifle and scope...it doesn't even start to include all the other stuff you'd need.

In the same amount of time it might take to save $800, you can likely find a used Remington M700 rifle for $325 or less...at least you can here. I see two or three a month in this small town for right at $300. They are not beautiful, but flawless blue and perfect stock finish do not influence accuracy or dependability one way or the other.

Brand new take-off barrels are available for $50-$75, depending on what they are chambered for. Redfield scopes made by Leupold are available new for $139 or less.

The stock and trigger/safety from the donor gun should work for varmint or hunting purposes. You don't even really need to get a M700 action...you might happen onto a Remington 722 (short) or 721 (long) action used rifle for about $250, and those actions are pretty much the same thing as the M700 except for the bottom metal/triggerguard and will accept the same "take-off" Remington barrels as the M700.

Now, of course, the cheapo "personalized" rifles I am discussing here are the low cost end of the menu. You can go up any amount you want. A really good aftermarket barrel can add as much as $600 or more (installed) right off the bat. A new plastic stock can run from $150 to $850, depending on what it is and who finishes it. For a really good new wood stock, think four to seven times that much. A trigger replacement can run up to about $225. Scopes can easily be as expensive as $2,000.

So, for us to answer your question well, perhaps you could tell us a little more about what you want to build and what you plan to do with it.

Best of luck to you...

AC

I would like to build a long range hunting rifle in 338 ultra. I don't know what actions can be used to build one, but I assume a rem ultra action.
As for budget I would like to stay around $1200 or less, but that is a HOPE.
Could I pickup a "take-off" .338 win mag and re-chamber it to be a 338 ultra?

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
I would like to build a long range hunting rifle in 338 ultra. I don't know what actions can be used to build one, but I assume a rem ultra action.
As for budget I would like to stay around $1200 or less, but that is a HOPE.
Could I pickup a "take-off" .338 win mag and re-chamber it to be a 338 ultra?

Go buy yourself a Rem 700 in 338 Ultra Mag and spend the rest for ammo and to fine tune it.

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
I would like to build a long range hunting rifle in 338 ultra. I don't know what actions can be used to build one, but I assume a rem ultra action.
As for budget I would like to stay around $1200 or less, but that is a HOPE.
Could I pickup a "take-off" .338 win mag and re-chamber it to be a 338 ultra?

If you are talking about a ".338 Edge" I'm building one right now. Kreiger barrel, Jewell trgger, Stiller action, H-S Precision stock. Defensive Edge Brake, Wyatt mag. box, 250 cases and a Nightforce scope and rings. All total the parts alone are around $4500.

Buy the .338 Ultra mag. if that will fill your need.

Any action that will work for .375 H&H or .300 Ultra mag. will work. By the time you have the action trued and fit for the long mag. box you will have about as much in it as a custom action that dosen't need work.

If your 'smith makes the assumption that your custom action need not be indicated -seek another 'smith.

All custom actions aren't created equally.
Most discrepancies can be seen with the naked eye!!
Lugs that can not mate to abuttments
Cam angles that do not match
Drafted surfaces that are several degrees variation from their non mated parts.

Ultra rails will need to be .030" wider that WM/H&H rails for proper feeding.

Westpac,
They only offer the XCR in 338 ultra, which is why I was thinking sendero and re-barrel.

Tapper,
Have you checked out Defensive Edge in Idaho? I thought they sold the whole package for cheaper than the parts you have. It sounds like a beauty that you are building.

Dan,
What would be your best value in doing what I want to do? Sendero and rebarrel? Xcr and change stock? Would the Weatherby Accumark 30-378 action work for a 338 ultra ir edge?

For the right amount,I could possibly be talked out of 1 of the Sendero SF's that I have in 338 Ultra.
That option would make your life a lot simpler.

Thanks Dans,
What price are you looking for? I just tried on a Accumark last night and wow did it fit well They are a bit more though.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Duckear,
In my part of the country you can buy a new 700 rifle cheaper than the hock shops sell used.
Butch

You have to be a 'regular'. I stop by one shop almost every week. The guys there are nice, I buy them lunch ever so often. They look out for me and give me a heads up on deals.

YMMV.

MRAMSAY10,

Best take a deep breath and think everything through. Whatever you have decided on right now, won't work for you.

You have changed your mind 8 times in 2 weeks.

Go have a couple of beers, take a cold shower and huge dump and then re-think all of it.

Do some reading and research on the internet before you build anything.

600 yard accuracy is no accident. The smiths that achieve it consistently in the rifles they build and a tight budget don't go together. They generally have clients handing them checks to keep their place "in line"for a build. Not to say a good smith is not available at a reasonable price, however, if you want the best you are

g o i n g

to

p a y.


As stated before, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

You sound like a nice guy, but holy smokes, you are all over the map with this.

My advise, until you have about $4k to build a real shooter, shoot what you got. That will also give you some time to dwindle down your caliber choices.

Have a great day.

Phil,
You have been helpful in the past so I appreciate your opinion. The weatherby has been on my mind for a while, but the reloading costs pushed my away. I liked the sendero route, but then I actually held one and it doesn't fit me very well. The custom route sounds great, but I am tight with my money and was hoping to find a budget way of creating my "dream" rifle. I have only been shooting at 300 yds lately to improve form and my 300 wsm seems to shoot well from there. I will keep moving back each week or two and see what she has.
I have about a month before I decide on which route to go. I would like to have at least 6 months to develop a load and shoot the thing before taking it hunting next season. In a way I am taking your advice Without rolling you eyes, what are your thoughts on an Accumark 338-378?

A custom action like a Bordan is a much nicer action than a remington, but at 900 for just the action then you've got to add all the other stuff you'll be WAY above your price point before you'll have it done. It's rarely cheaper to buy an action by itself than it is to buy a rifle and part it out. I remember a few years back when I looked through Brownell's catalog they were selling CZ actions for more than I could buy the entire rifle for, that kind of left me scratching my head.

At your price point if you want a good shooting 338 ultramag then I'd find a Remington M700 in 300 ultramag and send it to your barrel maker of choice that does rebarreling work. Why a 300 ultramag? Because there are a lot of them out there and they're cheap, it's the right action and magazine for the 338 ultramag and you're going to throw away the barrel anyway. Hart has barreled one rifle for me and does great gunsmithing. They'll face off the action, true and lap the lugs. It's not really a full on truing but hits 98% of the stuff that needs to be done. It'll most likely shoot very well. I wouldn't even consider putting on a factory take off barrel, the only thing factory barrels are good for is tomato stakes.

That being said, a 338 ultramag is about the last caliber I'd build in a rifle. I used to reload for a friend with a 338 ultramag. Once I got it shooting he sold it with less than 40 rounds through it. I did all the load workup and sighting in because he was afraid to shoot it because it kicked like a mule, he couldn't hit anything with it. I actually had it shooting pretty well off the bench but I've got a bit more experience shooting big kickers than him and could hang on to it long enough to shoot a decent group. I didn't want to shoot it too much though. The 338 and the 300 ultramag are pretty useless calibers in my opinion. If you just want to have the rifle with the biggest bark on the block then go for it, nothing wrong with that, whatever blows your skirt up. I don't view them as very practical hunting rounds though.

boltman says,

quote:

I don't view them as very practical hunting rounds though.

I agree. The powder charge burns so hot, it doesn't take too many shots to send the throat downrange with the bullet. A big pile of powder as used in a .338 will eat that throat away in about 100 shots. Then it's $500 for a new barrel, or about $5 per round to shoot it-- not counting the actual ammo...

Boltman,
Thanks for the insight. That is the kind of thread that helps me out. If the 338rum, 300rum and 30-378 are so bad on barrels, why do people buy them? I want a gun that is going to last because I shoot about 25 rounds a week out of my 300wsm. I want to do the same with the new rifle.

I like the 30 cal stuff and want to shoot the 210 berger for long range. I also like the 300gr SMK for 338. What is a good cal that doesn't burn up barrels but has plenty of umph once it hits an animal at 500yds?

quote:

...why do people buy them?

So they can say my deck is bigger than your deck...

Nice HB I really like the long range ballistics of both, but I don't want to go through barrels every year.

I have a 300WSM in a stainless barrel. I think the material is 416. I use 65 grains of RL-22 or H4831SC in it for 180-grain Sierra MatchKings in garden-variety Winchester cases. I like to think this is a gentle load on the throat. I get about 2910 fps from this load...

quote:

Originally posted by boltman:

I wouldn't even consider putting on a factory take off barrel, the only thing factory barrels are good for is tomato stakes.

Just goes to show, we all get different things from our experiences.

My last take-off barrel purchase was a Remington M700 barrel in 7 m/m Weatherby Magnum.

I screwed it on the action and checked the headspace. Was fine.

So, I made up some loads. Took them to the range and shot them in front of 20 or 30 friends. Averaged 1/2" 5-shot groups at 100 yards with the best load, which used a 162 grain boattail bullet. To me that's a damned great tomato stake.

Have half a dozen other take off Remington barrels on rifles. They certainly weren't all 1/2" shooters, but they all regularly shoot 1 MOA groups or under with the loads they like best. Most of them I only paid $50 each for.

To each his own. For inexpensive hunting rifles, I will continue to use new, take-off Remington barrels when I can find them in the calibers I want at $75 or less.

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Remington is one of (probably the only one of) the few big-time manufacturers that sells just actions. But I have heard in these pages that availability can be spotty. You might try an auction site. There was one in the AR classifieds a long time ago for $400. Brownells was selling them a while back. They may still be into that. If I was wearing your underwear, it probably wouldn't fit. But that is beside the point. If I was looking to build a gun, I'd look at the custom-action makers. Barney Lawton sells a Remington clone for about $800. For that, you get the benefits of CNC and EDM processing that you just don't get with a mass-produced action. Start with something that's maybe a bit more expensive than a run-of-the-mill Remmy, but have something when it's done that is unique, high-quality, valuable and YOURS. Have something nobody else has, and pass it on to your kids...

I'm with HOMEBREWER. So much I bought a couple of actions from Stiller Precision. They should be in very soon. Plus you can get them with top quality magazine box and choice of triggers. AND you will not have to pay for the action to be blueprinted.

For a $1200 budget you could get a nice stock rifle, preferably used for a good deal, a trigger job, bed it yourself and have plenty of coin left over to pour some lead down range. One thing that I noticed is we all get carried away and suggest that you have to have the best of everything and that costs $$$$$. I don't know anyone, ANYONE, that can shoot better than their rifle is capable of shooting even with factory rifle. Also, in my opinion, the action is the least critical part of a rifle as pertaining to accuracy. The average factory action isn't going to be perfectly square, perfectly threaded and the lugs aren't goint to mate up perfectly flat. You could replace that same action with one that is perfect in every way and I doubt that you will be able to notice a measurable difference on target under normal shooting conditions. I'd say that the most critical parts pertaining to inherrent accuracy of a rifle in descending order would be the crown, the chamber, the bore, the bedding and lastly the action. I'd throw trigger in there too, but it doesn't really effect the rifles accuracy but it effects your control over the rifles accuracy. Just my opinions.....
That said, if I was getting a factory rifle rebarreled, I'd have the action trued anyways just because I'm anal like that!

quote:

Originally posted by Dans40XC:
If your 'smith makes the assumption that your custom action need not be indicated -seek another 'smith.

All custom actions aren't created equally.
Most discrepancies can be seen with the naked eye!!
Lugs that can not mate to abuttments
Cam angles that do not match
Drafted surfaces that are several degrees variation from their non mated parts.

Ultra rails will need to be .030" wider that WM/H&H rails for proper feeding.

I agree that the smith should indicate the action to know what he's working with on a custom action, but at the point he thinks he's going to true it is where he'd be wrong....if it were my action. If I was told that it was out of true it would go back to the action maker to be replaced or trued there at their cost.

Name some names of who is selling crap custom actions, I don't want to end up buying one.

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
Nice HB I don't want to go through barrels every year.

I am getting close to 340 Weatherby velocities with my wildcat, with almost 8 grains less powder. The 340 Wby is a reasonable long range cartridge, and hits pretty hard at distance.

I'm not sure what burns out barrels and what doesn't. I assume it is the more powder you stuff into a case, the higher the heat from that powder, which erodes the throat area. But as I said, I am no expert.

I don't know if burning 8 grains less powder prolongs barrel life or not, when compared to the 340 Wby.

Just thought I'd mention it.

quote:

Tapper,
Have you checked out Defensive Edge in Idaho? I thought they sold the whole package for cheaper than the parts you have. It sounds like a beauty that you are building.

You are correct. but the customer that this is for wants it as light as possible and a Stiller preditor action with a fluted Krieger barrel. A lot of the cost is in the Night Force scope, sine gage & level and mounts, about half.... Tom