Perhaps this belongs on the Political section.

I'd like somebody knowledgeable about firearm building explain to me in simple terms just how a 3-D printer can spit out a functional firearm.

I've owned a lot of fireams. I've looked over the shoulder of a lot of talented gunsmiths as they machined and milled on firearm projects including the likes of the late Lenard Brownell. I've had a tour of the S&W Factory and watched the computer controlled machines making stuff. Looked like a couple million dollars worth of equipment to make the parts.

So what dollar amount would it take to buy a '3-D Printer' that could duplicate a Glock 17 or a _________? Or is going to be a simple matter of a 15-year old kid getting ahold of some software and producing a MG 42 in his bedroom.

Keep it in simple terms as I'm techno challenged ( I still have a flip phone). I would like the bullet points as I intend to use them when some 'ig-mo' (ignorant moron) has their panties in a wad about how we're all in peril due to 3-D printed firearms.

P.S. If any of you can do this 3-D printed firearm thing, please make me up a Pre-64 Model 70 clone in .257 Roberts. Can you do it for 500 bucks? Thanks!

3D printing can produce parts the can be used to make functional firearms.

The process is not advanced enough to clone firearms.

All the hype is just the anti's trying to hype it to advance their agenda of destroying the USA gun culture.

We seen the same BS in the 80's over Glocks just the same old garbage.

it is all about the anti's doing anything to advance their agenda.

p dog is correct, this all came about because of a court case where a man, (Cody something) was arrested for posting on the internet the spec's and info to 3d print an AR15 lower receiver. He was arrested and charged with a multitude of crimes.
The ATF and another agency had to drop the charges and declare the AR15 "not to be a weapon of war or mass destruction" as well as pay his legal fees and allow him to post his information.
Now the left media has created hysteria about 3d printing firearms, as if someone could print out a pistol and run amok, that's the media we have today...

I talked to Cody Wilson a couple of times he.


Here are some links to give you a lot of the back ground and story.

They are listed I believe from the latest to oldest.

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...ctory-for-first.html

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...-weapon-project.html


https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...support-of-cody.html


https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...lson-im-looking.html

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...-weapon-project.html

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...ributed-website.html

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...ker-cody-wilson.html

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...ed-will-release.html

3D printing of individual parts is fairly easy and getting easier and cheaper including printing metal parts. An AR lower or many pistol frames are not very complicated parts and then you can buy all the other pieces if you want. My daughter is working on a project to automate a manufacturing process beginning with a 3D scanning camera which is connected to a 3D metal printer that produces "one off" parts. It involves a half million dollar robot but her old Lego robotics team was doing a similar thing using a $1000 printer. Of course it is all something of a distraction becasue there are several other ways to get to the same place. There are all of the *80% lower" and "polymer pour mold kits". There is the "Ghost Gunner" kit. A few plumbing parts and optional hacksaw will get you a firing single shot shotgun. There are instructions for converting air soft toys to ammo firing versions. There are all the varieties of firearms that are not legally defined as "firearms". There are all the illegal and/or stolen firearms.

If there is a point to this, it may be that 3D printing of firearms parts is nothing new and it is still legal in the US to make firearms for your own use and many people do. I think the original case involved the potential for international distribution of the data files under ITAR regulations not the actual use in printing parts.

I think there are two things antis are trying to instill fear about:

1) Undetectable gun. There's the "Liberator" pistol which I think is all plastic. Even the barrel/trigger/hammer. It's based on the WWII design we made cheap and dropped behind enemy lines. Ugly, big, single-shot. Anyway, it's plastic so probably metal detector "proof". I don't think going to get through the Xray machine. But I believe with a 9mm it comes apart in 20 some shots IIRC in ATF testing. And I'm not sure it's more effective or hideable than the little guns people make with a barrel bolt with a rubber band as the action popping a 22 down a car antenna "barrel".

2) You can make "ghost guns". Because with $5K investment you can print plastic lowers for AR's or Glocks or whatever. So no serial #. Of course with a $65 router from Harbor Freight you can do the same thing with an 80% lower.

It's all a nonsense of course these 3-D printable firearms as others say a pipe gun is less effort!

quote:

There's the "Liberator" pistol which I think is all plastic

Uses a steel nail for the firing pin.

Reminiscent of the hysterics that the media went into when the Glock was put on the market.

Anyone with a reasonable knowledge in a workshop can make a single shot, single use, firearm in under an hour!

I said single use, but most likely can be used several times if one uses low pressure ammo like 22 LR or 410 shotgun shells!

If they only knew what a lathe and mill could produce. Machine tool registration?

Do not forget two facts that the liberal media will not reveal;
1: It is not against federal law to make your own firearm, or 1000 of them if you want. (Cannot make a full auto, or short barreled one though).
No serial numbers or any paper work required.
Just can't sell them.
2: Making an AR15 requires lots of steel parts (which are not regulated). Even if you make a lower receiver out of plastic, or play doh, it still needs many steel parts.

We have the ability to "print" any part from steel in our facility

We can build with plastic or stainless steel

It's not economical nor is it pretty and would get a guy fired in a split second if anyone used the machinery to make any parts not affiliated with a customer request

For the sake of our conversation, I understand polymer molded AR-15 lowers and/or single use - low tech 'guns' can be produced fairly easy.

Lets just say I'm part of a criminal organization that doesn't care about laws. And we wanted to produce fully functional firearms via a '3-D printer'.

What kind of money would it take for the '3-D Printer' to make the lock, stock, and barrel of say a Glock 17 or MP-5.

I'm not trying to be silly. I've had some conversations with some uninformed people that are caught up in this 3-D Printer gun thing. They think we are in great peril over this ('cuz the media says so). I've tried to explain that to make all the components necessary would require a couple million bucks and some high tech expertise. And that anybody with that kind of resources can simply buy firearms on the black market.

They have this notion that a kid in his bedroom is going to push a button and make guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Anyone with a reasonable knowledge in a workshop can make a single shot, single use, firearm in under an hour!

I said single use, but most likely can be used several times if one uses low pressure ammo like 22 LR or 410 shotgun shells!

We were confiscating "Firearms" off the militia in East Timor in 1999 that we a pipe on a rough stock and the propellant was lots of match heads.

Yes, the kid in his bedroom, or the drug gang,
can make an AR-15 for the price of the printer and a bag of powdered plastic. He orders all the rest which are legally classified the same as a bicycle seat. So it is not millions of dollars in capital investment; I do not know how much a 3D printer costs, but a small CNC mill can be used as well. Still not illegal to make a firearm for anyone who is otherwise permitted to own it.
You can already buy 80% complete aluminum receivers; perfectly legal as they are not firearms.
So, it is only the lower receiver that has to be made; the rest is not a firearm.
Now, they probably are not legally permitted to OWN a firearm. Which is a different question, and already against the law.
As for the pipe on a stick; muzzle loaders are not firearms in the US.

You only need to make the single part that is considered the firearm. You can buy all the rest. You can get plastic printers for roughly $1K. Our local library has one you can check out. Metal printers run a little more but not a lot. It does not have to be pretty. It only needs to work. The poly mold and 80% kits are probably cheaper and easier to work with.

Apart from the legalities involved, the information is out and it is too late to get it back even if you thought that was a good idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:
For the sake of our conversation, I understand polymer molded AR-15 lowers and/or single use - low tech 'guns' can be produced fairly easy.

Lets just say I'm part of a criminal organization that doesn't care about laws. And we wanted to produce fully functional firearms via a '3-D printer'.

What kind of money would it take for the '3-D Printer' to make the lock, stock, and barrel of say a Glock 17 or MP-5.

I'm not trying to be silly. I've had some conversations with some uninformed people that are caught up in this 3-D Printer gun thing. They think we are in great peril over this ('cuz the media says so). I've tried to explain that to make all the components necessary would require a couple million bucks and some high tech expertise. And that anybody with that kind of resources can simply buy firearms on the black market.

They have this notion that a kid in his bedroom is going to push a button and make guns.

The operative word here is “does not care about the law”.

Criminals are not punished enough, crimes will increase.

Make a crime pay, criminals will think twice about it.

I have tried a small 3D printer, which prints plastics.

It does pretty much whatever you program in it, so I assume with a decent printer and a good programmer it should not be difficult.

Are these guns any more than a sophisticated zip gun?

I just watched Cody Wilsons interview on the news. I must say the man is intelligent, informed and articulate.
He basically spelled it out in facts no matter how hard the interviewer tried to trip him up.
I for one am proud to have him among the ranks of pro gun supporters.
Whether or not you agree that we should print 3d receivers is up to you, but intelligent people and well spoken like him is our salvation in the firearms industry and shooting sports, collecting and ownership.

I was very impressed, he knows his stuff better than the reporter did for sure.(not a huge accomplishment)

Don't you need a license to manufacture a firearm receiver either by machine or printer?

You can make a firearm for yourself legally.
Different set of rules apply if you are manufacturing them and selling them, or if it is illegal for you to possess firearms.

This is what part of the fury from the left is about, they didn't know that it is legal for you to make your own.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
You can make a firearm for yourself legally.
Different set of rules apply if you are manufacturing them and selling them, or if it is illegal for you to possess firearms.

This is what part of the fury from the left is about, they didn't know that it is legal for you to make your own.

Are these firearms still legal after the person dies? Can they be passed on to relatives?

As I said above, anyone who is legally able (under federal law) to possess a firearm can make one or a thousand if he or she wants to. No paperwork or serial numbers required. You can't sell them.
Can they be passed on after you die? The law does not address that, that I have found.
Are they basically zip guns? Yes, the totally plastic ones will have very limited life, but a plastic or aluminum AR-15 lower, is a very capable arm because all the stressed parts like the barrel, barrel extension, and bolt, are made by others who know how to make them.
Yes, the libs have their panties in a wad because they hate guns; facts don't matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Jgrabow6493:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
You can make a firearm for yourself legally.
Different set of rules apply if you are manufacturing them and selling them, or if it is illegal for you to possess firearms.

This is what part of the fury from the left is about, they didn't know that it is legal for you to make your own.

Are these firearms still legal after the person dies? Can they be passed on to relatives?

According to YouTube, yes. But only if the individual can legally own a firearm to begin with.

A program to print a gun is information. If the ATF had prevailed they could just as easily expanded that to confiscate all books or other printed documents containing replicated shop drawings of any firearm, new or old. After all, drawings are just information as well. The cost/convenience or lack thereof to produce a product from that information is irrelevant to the laws that apply.

quote:

Originally posted by J_Zola:
If they only knew what a lathe and mill could produce. Machine tool registration?

One of the issues surrounding the American Revolution was the British restrictions on machine tools that were firearms-capable.
The British were making good money selling weapons to both sides of the Indian Wars.

Ammunition is metallic and detectable with current technology; how is a plastic gun relevant?
Further, multi-spectrum x-ray machines are already on-line. Hiding a plastic gun is getting harder to do.

Over the years there have been a few high-profile dimbulbs snagged with "plastic guns" they thought would pass security at the airport.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
As I said above, anyone who is legally able (under federal law) to possess a firearm can make one or a thousand if he or she wants to. No paperwork or serial numbers required. You can't sell them.
Can they be passed on after you die? The law does not address that, that I have found.
Are they basically zip guns? Yes, the totally plastic ones will have very limited life, but a plastic or aluminum AR-15 lower, is a very capable arm because all the stressed parts like the barrel, barrel extension, and bolt, are made by others who know how to make them.
Yes, the libs have their panties in a wad because they hate guns; facts don't matter.

I'm correctable on this but I believe the ATF's rules contain the word intent. You can't make a firearm with the intent to sell it unless you have a federal manufacturer's license.

I saw one of the news feeds a week ago or so. The big deal over the judge ruling to stay the release of these prints/plans/programs. Then the newsie went on to say how "you can still find them if you can navigate the dark web."

PLEASE! Just because I could, I entered the subject into Google. There they were, dozens of hits and the second one not only took me to a site that had the entire file of parts but also the programs all in .stl format. As a bonus, they had several variations for AR15 lower receivers. All the way from solid, you got to machine a bunch; to 80%, drill a few holes and maybe machine a bit; to 100%, all done.

Time wasted on this was about 10 minutes.

People have been casting metal for thousands of years. With a very little knowledge, some very simple tools and materials, you could cast AR-15 (and other) receivers all day long in your back yard. It is a lot cheaper than printing and no computer files are required. This is the 21st century, you can do the same thing with plastics now. It's even easier than working with metal.

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:
People have been casting metal for thousands of years. With a very little knowledge, some very simple tools and materials, you could cast AR-15 (and other) receivers all day long in your back yard. It is a lot cheaper than printing and no computer files are required. This is the 21st century, you can do the same thing with plastics now. It's even easier than working with metal.

You "cast" much plastic? If yes....please tell me how easy it is.

I've been building plastic injection molds since 1988

Ted here's how to cast a "plastic" resin AR receiver


http://ar15mold.com/freedom-15-5-kit/

Five easy AR receivers

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...-make-ar15-type.html

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Ted here's how to cast a "plastic" resin AR receiver


http://ar15mold.com/freedom-15-5-kit/

Five easy AR receivers

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...-make-ar15-type.html

That kit for $340 is epoxy resin

I suppose being that it is synthetic it falls into the plastcs catagory but Im sure it falls far from an injection molded part.

Casting plastic? Its pouring glue

I picked up a couple complete stripped lowers for $40 each a few months ago.
I am sure that I couldn't make one for that.
Yes, I did have to do the paperwork, but if I was a criminal, I could steal one pretty cheap as well.

quote:

Originally posted by odies dad:
I picked up a couple complete stripped lowers for $40 each a few months ago.
I am sure that I couldn't make one for that.
Yes, I did have to do the paperwork, but if I was a criminal, I could steal one pretty cheap as well.

^^^^
this

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:
People have been casting metal for thousands of years. With a very little knowledge, some very simple tools and materials, you could cast AR-15 (and other) receivers all day long in your back yard. It is a lot cheaper than printing and no computer files are required. This is the 21st century, you can do the same thing with plastics now. It's even easier than working with metal.

You "cast" much plastic? If yes....please tell me how easy it is.

I've been building plastic injection molds since 1988

You can argue semantics with me on this if you want but my point is making a modern firearm receiver can be done with a lot simpler tools than a 3-D printer.

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:
People have been casting metal for thousands of years. With a very little knowledge, some very simple tools and materials, you could cast AR-15 (and other) receivers all day long in your back yard. It is a lot cheaper than printing and no computer files are required. This is the 21st century, you can do the same thing with plastics now. It's even easier than working with metal.

You "cast" much plastic? If yes....please tell me how easy it is.

I've been building plastic injection molds since 1988

You can argue semantics with me on this if you want but my point is making a modern firearm receiver can be done with a lot simpler tools than a 3-D printer.

I agree

I saw a pretty cool video of a fellow that cast an AR10 lower receiver from scrap range brass. I turned out pretty nice but it was a fair amount of machining to finish.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Ted here's how to cast a "plastic" resin AR receiver


http://ar15mold.com/freedom-15-5-kit/

Five easy AR receivers

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...-make-ar15-type.html

That kit for $340 is epoxy resin

I suppose being that it is synthetic it falls into the plastcs catagory but Im sure it falls far from an injection molded part.

Casting plastic? Its pouring glue

I agree with you but it is out there.

That is what is important. If I want untraceable firearms I buy them on the open market.

Fairly easy to make firearms and free market sales are a huge safety valve against confiscation.

The anti's goal of universal back ground checks and registration only has one useful purpose that is confiscation.

I have found if someone wants something bad enough they will make it. Case in point..I have hanging on my wall a homemade 410 shotgun. It was made by pinning sheet metal together to form the receiver. the barrel was made by successive sheets of metal formed around a mandrel for the chamber end the lug pinned to the barrel and then wrapped with hay wire the full lenght of the barrel. The interesting thing is it works altho I have not nor will not ever shoot it,some one did as it shows use.

Okay, I get it.

A kid in his bedroom could produce a lower receiver for an AR using a 3-D printer. Then he could obtain some readily available parts (upper, trigger group, stocks, etc) and produce a mostly functional AR.

And/Or some simplistic one--use only plastic pistol (single shot?) that uses an improvised firing pin and spring. Perhaps a crude metal version?

And that it's apparently not illegal to make your own firearm for personal if you don't intend to sell it and can legally possess it.

That said, short of a couple million dollars worth of sophisticated machinery and technology, and a lot of supporting logistics, nobody is going to reproduce a cloned Glock 17 or MG 42 on a 3-D printer.

Thank You