Greetings,
I just had a M70 Classic in 270 winchester converted to 257 wby. I had a Hart barrel put on it and had the bolt face opened up. The rifle shoots great, but when the cartridge pops up from the magazine, it doesn't lock into the bolt right away, the round is halfway in the bolt face when the action is worked. I have to close the bolt with some force, not excessive, but not like the other M70's I have. I'm concerned about not being able to get a round in the chamber without spooking game. Anyone have any suggestions?

Take it back to the guy who barreled it for you and have him carefully study it to determine exactly what is happening. Obviously it needs further work.

Of course it needs more work, that's a given. I just thought someone here could enlighten me in the ways of a M70 action.

parrett,

Is it the same magazine follower as previously, or was it changed? That might be it (dragging), but it's more likely the extractor is too tight against the rim.

That kind of thing happens occasionally with even high-dollar customs, when the 'smith plans for you to use one brand of brass, and you end up with another, or the same brand with thicker rims.

Jaywalker

Before you can learn the ways of the Mod. 70 action you must prove yourself worthy. Can you say shibboleth? If so, and you know the handshake, the brotherhod will let you know the arcaine secrets of the Mod. 70. If you don't have the pass, someone will have it for you.

Judge Sharpe

So.......another CRF that’s having a bit of trouble with “C†part, huh?

Jaywalker,
The follower is the same and I believe the gap between the extractor and bolt face is the problem. Can a 'smith make the space wider or is there another remedy? Thanks for the ideas.

Dan

I'd find another gunsmith. Rick 0311's profundity notwithstanding, there is a lot more, a lot more to making your rifle work. There's been a lot written on the subject here, but the culprits are obviously the bolt face was improperly widened and I suspect the magazine geometry was not adjusted to the 257 Weatherby. It's really too bad when gunsmiths aren't up front with their clients when discussing the intricacies of such a radical change in cartridges.

In order to make the rifle right, you are probably going to have to spend about as much money as if you would bought a new rifle. jorge

Measure the bolt around the extractor with and without a shell in. If the difference is more than .010 you may have too tight an extractor. I'd order a new one from Williams, they are better made than the original and should come properly tensioned and shaped.
Your magazine box is also probably too narrow. A round in the magazine box should touch the shell directly beneath it as well as the second one down. You may check with brownells and buy a new wider magazine box, and get a magnum follower while you are at it.
After all of this you may need to adjust the rails to release the round at the proper time. You probably want to have someone do this for you. The first 3 steps are just swapping parts that anyone can do. When you start cutting metal you need to know where you are going..........DJ

Come on jorge, I can’t even say that word so I couldn’t “be†it!

Just couldn’t pass up a little jab. I have always believed that either type of action (CRF or PF) needs to be set up properly in order to function at its best. Once that is accomplished they both work just fine and a guy can make his choice based on what he likes or doesn’t like.

I had the same problem - impossible to chamber a round in the last 1/2 inch or so without giving it a bit of a hard push. I ordered an Williams extractor - while I was waiting I thought what the heck I will have a go at fixing it as I have a new one on the way anyway. What I did was to take a fine file and emery board and lightly (and very carefully tiny bit at a time) worked over the edge of the claw - it was very thin and sharp. Flattened it out a bit and took a wee bit off so as the round is forced up under it as it enters the chamber it does not meet as much resistance. Worked a dream - feeds and extracts as good as its Williams replacement. Evidently you can also can also bend the tail of the claw to lessen the 'pinch' but I found this a bit to hard to do.

Rick: sorry I jumped on that but you have to admit it's getting to be we can't have ANY kind of reasonable discussion without "that" stuff creeping in. jorge

Sure Jorge, but us PF ers get tired of the Must be CRF crowd.
So give us a good topic to talk about. We could do your last No. 3 wire crash landing, but that's off topic.
John L.

parret,

Take it back to your smith and show him what it does. He should be able to fix it. The rim of the Weatherby case is a little thicker spec wise.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Rick: sorry I jumped on that but you have to admit it's getting to be we can't have ANY kind of reasonable discussion without "that" stuff creeping in. jorge

jorge,

No harm no foul buddy!

I just get a kick out of this ongoing topic because you can just feel the temperatures rising every time it comes up. Some people act like you’re assaulting their very being if you happen to think that PF actions should even be allowed on the planet.

As I said, it has been my experience, and it is my belief, that both types work perfectly fine when they are set up and maintained properly. When they aren’t...neither one of them works real well. I own both types and don’t have any problems with either.

Thanks to all for the good information. I've called my gunsmith and all will be taken care of. I'm going to send him the bolt and he's going to work it over. What I really like about this forum is the wide variety of information and opinions found here. It's kind of interesting when people get a bit hot under the collar, after all, we're all just looking at a computer screen.....

Thanks again.

Dan

http://www.danparrett.com

Rick,
I'm with you. In my 17 years of guiding I've seen a higher percentage of CRF guns jam than PF. I know that's blasphemy to put on a chat site but it's the truth for my last few thousand clients.
That said, if a CRF is set up properly they can't be beat.
Furthermore, so called custom rifles (usually of less quality of course) jam much more often than off-the-shelf rifles.

Kyler

quote:

Originally posted by parrett:
Thanks to all for the good information. I've called my gunsmith and all will be taken care of. I'm going to send him the bolt and he's going to work it over. What I really like about this forum is the wide variety of information and opinions found here. It's kind of interesting when people get a bit hot under the collar, after all, we're all just looking at a computer screen.....

Thanks again.

Dan

http://www.danparrett.com

Amen, brother...and welcome to the insane asylum !

There are two topics that will guarantee a verbal donny-brook every time...ANYTHING having to do with Remington rifles, and CRF vs PF actions. A very close third is probably factory quality control ...or lack of same, and especially if its Remington.

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
... In my 17 years of guiding I've seen a higher percentage of CRF guns jam than PF. I know that's blasphemy to put on a chat site but it's the truth for my last few thousand clients.
That said, if a CRF is set up properly they can't be beat.
Furthermore, so called custom rifles (usually of less quality of course) jam much more often than off-the-shelf rifles...

Hey Kyler, Here is a quote from one of the most brilliant(?) folks who denounce Push Feed. It was in reference to the(patheticly pitiful) Gas Handling of the M70s that he tried to say was not a problem, but works here as well for him:

quote:

Originally posted by Bradly:
C'Mon now Xxxx, don't go muddying-up this thread with facts...

You will sure get the "Experts" in a real head-spin with those first-hand experienced FACTS! But, actual first-hand experience always seems to confuse their thoughts.
---

Hey Parrett, Your sending it back to the man that created the problem is the correct answer. Looks like he would need the entire rifle though to make sure it Feeds properly to me. It may not be the "Bolt" at all.

I wonder how he managed to miss it doing that when he had it the first time? When he changed the barrel and altered the Bolt Face dimensions originally, I would have thought that Proper Feeding would have been a critical "Operational Verification Test" before he ever told you it was ready.

Darn shame for you to have to go through this fiasco.

Kyler; Your post there is the absolute bottom truth, a "PROPERLY" tuned CRF can't be beat for reliabilty. Just becasue a fly-by-night smith "builds" you a rifle doesn't make it "custom" or relaible, and NONE of my factory Model 70s or Belgian Brownings hae EVER given me any feeding problems. My Weatherbys are obviously pushfeeds and I would not hesitate to hunt anything with them and hae done so.

Rick: As you can see, I have no real issues with GOOD pushfeeds either as I have both, but I have to admit that I do have a preference for reliable CRFs when it comes to hunting certain types of dangerous game under adverse conditions. The problem here looks like a poerly executed gunsmithing job and nothing else. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by parrett:
Thanks to all for the good information. I've called my gunsmith and all will be taken care of. I'm going to send him the bolt and he's going to work it over. What I really like about this forum is the wide variety of information and opinions found here. It's kind of interesting when people get a bit hot under the collar, after all, we're all just looking at a computer screen.....

Thanks again.

Dan

http://www.danparrett.com

You do whatever you want to, but if it were me I would be sending him more that just the bolt. The whole feeding cycle should be studied to see exactly what is happening. As other folks have said, there may be a problem with the rails being a bit too narrow. It could be something else. I would send him a bunch of dummy rounds that I reloaded and the whole barreled action.

I did a bit of sleuthing myself to narrow down the problem. I have quite a few M70's and swapped some parts and with a different bolt (one from a 270 WBY), the problem went away. I also took the bolt out of the 257 and slid the cartridge in and out of the face. It was tight while the 270 bolt wasn't. Now, back to my gunsmith, I never said the rifle wouldn't feed. I just didn't feel that I could chamber a round as quietly as I wanted.

Now, after that patting myself on the back for my troubleshooting efforts, I took out one of my Remingtons and tried to cycle a couple of rounds through it, but the bolt kept falling out!

A control feed action does not pick up the cartridge from the start as the cartridge slides forward it will come up at about the half way point and engage if it is properly timed...otherwise its out of time so to speak.
This is very important in DGRs as one can get et if they are not correct.

Having to use some forcd to close the bolt tells me you did not resize the case enough or the chamber is a tad snug and needs some more reamer work but other things could be effecting this also such as neck thickness but not as likely....

If your bolt is falling out its becasue the bolt release is stuck on your Remington.....

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Measure the bolt around the extractor with and without a shell in. If the difference is more than .010 you may have too tight an extractor. I'd order a new one from Williams, they are better made than the original and should come properly tensioned and shaped.
Your magazine box is also probably too narrow. A round in the magazine box should touch the shell directly beneath it as well as the second one down. You may check with brownells and buy a new wider magazine box, and get a magnum follower while you are at it.
After all of this you may need to adjust the rails to release the round at the proper time. You probably want to have someone do this for you. The first 3 steps are just swapping parts that anyone can do. When you start cutting metal you need to know where you are going..........DJ

DJP you don't knpw nutt'n bout geometry. Your brain is fried from sniffn too much paint!!!!!

quote:

DJP you don't knpw nutt'n bout geometry. Your brain is fried from sniffn too much paint!!!!!

Actually last night it was probably from too much 12 year old Single Malt, which you are to blame for starting me on!......... .......DJ