Placed an order with Brownells for eleven items. Seven were either "out of stock, discontinued, or no longer available".

A certain model Timney trigger was supposedly no lopnger available?..Ahh..... Don't think so! Sure enough, bought them direct from Timney.

About 150 pages of the catalog are devoted to combat tactical crap and every possible variant.

Not the bible of gunsmithing products that I fondly remember.

Your second line from the bottom describes the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN magazine to a T!

Hip

Just not having much luck with suppliers lately are you Duane. Same thing at the grocery store, empty shelves everywhere. I've got my theories as to why, but we better keep that to the political forum.

But you are correct, very few of us left that appreciate traditional gunsmithing and the work that you and a few others do, and the catalogs reflect that. Maybe someone needs to step up and build a company that caters to the walnut and blued steel crowd. If there is even enough of us to call it a crowd.

John

I find that many manufacturers are going DTC and eliminating the middlemen.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I find that many manufacturers are going DTC and eliminating the middlemen.

I started going to the suppliers years ago. I'd rather see them make the $$$ and stay in business making something I like, as letting wal-nells cut their throat. If you notice, I see Sunny Hill no longer has much at wal-nells . I do use Grafs for somethings like brass and sometimes a trigger or die set. They (Grafs) does offer 'dealer' pricing, where wal-nells retail and dealer price, many times, are the same. I don't operate a business for the fun of it......

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I find that many manufacturers are going DTC and eliminating the middlemen.

I think this is what you have to look at as much as anything. Brownells last I knew wanted 30-40% markup. I don't get 30-40% on any of the products I make, why would I give it up to a fulfillment company, which is all Brownells is today.

As to someone creating a company to cater to the wood and blued crowd, there is neither the demand nor the margin. I made more money making beer bottle openers for a guy last year than I probably did with all the custom rifle parts I sold. As a business it simply comes down to making money. If it were not for the tool and die work I do, the other machining I do, I could not do any custom gun work.

And that is why I have the greatest respect for guys like Duane Wiebe, James Anderson, and others. I have no idea how they made a living or make a living, only that their skills and abilities far supersede mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:
Your second line from the bottom describes the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN magazine to a T!

Hip

Yes. Why American Rifleman comes with a pistol on the cover month after month?

You guys don't get out much do you? Just to to any rifle range, any gun show, or any gun store, no matter how big or small, and report back on how much Walnut you see. And all that has a negative effect all up and back down the supply chain.
At a local gun shop, all of their clerks admit that they know nothing about those "old" guns we all like, and don't want to. No one comes into the shop to buy a wood stocked or even a bolt action rifle anyway.
That is why I am trying to teach one of them.

The times most certainly have changed. I started buying stuff from Brownells in the early 1970's and watched as the emphasis went from classic gunsmithing to armorer's kits. The content today is, I'm sad to say, reflective of the marketplace. Regards. Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I find that many manufacturers are going DTC and eliminating the middlemen.

As to someone creating a company to cater to the wood and blued crowd, there is neither the demand nor the margin. I made more money making beer bottle openers for a guy last year than I probably did with all the custom rifle parts I sold. As a business it simply comes down to making money. If it were not for the tool and die work I do, the other machining I do, I could not do any custom gun work.

Umm, I might know a thing or three about making a living catering to a nitch market. Been doing it for 25 years. How many competitive service rifle shooters are there in the country? How many hunters? How much of our service rifle stuff do you see in Brownells or Bass Pro shop? None, because we are to small of a market. Just gotta think differently than the big guys, know your market, have realistic expectations, and as always, have good customer service, particularly if you want to make it in a nitch market. They told me not to quit my day job too.


John Holliger

Kinda womder why Brownells even bothers to catalog items they (might ) not intend to either keep in stock or sell.

American Rifleman? HA! mioght as well call it American Handgun fish wrapper.

When my life membership expires I do not intend to renew.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Placed an order with Brownells for eleven items. Seven were either "out of stock, discontinued, or no longer available".

A certain model Timney trigger was supposedly no lopnger available?..Ahh..... Don't think so! Sure enough, bought them direct from Timney.

About 150 pages of the catalog are devoted to combat tactical crap and every possible variant.

Not the bible of gunsmithing products that I fondly remember.

You still look at a paper catalog?

I figure now on new projects that I'm going to end up making everything I need; wood, metal, fiberglass, etc. My nemesis at this moment is recoil pads. If only I could figure out how to make them. And when you find something that you use more than a couple times a year buy all you can afford.

quote:

Originally posted by gasgunner:

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I find that many manufacturers are going DTC and eliminating the middlemen.

As to someone creating a company to cater to the wood and blued crowd, there is neither the demand nor the margin. I made more money making beer bottle openers for a guy last year than I probably did with all the custom rifle parts I sold. As a business it simply comes down to making money. If it were not for the tool and die work I do, the other machining I do, I could not do any custom gun work.

Umm, I might know a thing or three about making a living catering to a nitch market. Been doing it for 25 years. How many competitive service rifle shooters are there in the country? How many hunters? How much of our service rifle stuff do you see in Brownells or Bass Pro shop? None, because we are to small of a market. Just gotta think differently than the big guys, know your market, have realistic expectations, and as always, have good customer service, particularly if you want to make it in a nitch market. They told me not to quit my day job too.


John Holliger

My compliments to you, your a better (business)man than me.

quote:

Originally posted by gasgunner:
Umm, I might know a thing or three about making a living catering to a nitch market. Been doing it for 25 years. How many competitive service rifle shooters are there in the country? How many hunters? How much of our service rifle stuff do you see in Brownells or Bass Pro shop? None, because we are to small of a market. Just gotta think differently than the big guys, know your market, have realistic expectations, and as always, have good customer service, particularly if you want to make it in a nitch market. They told me not to quit my day job too.


John Holliger

As a "Service Rifle" shooter I can attest personally on John and his business. I call him and order a new upper, he builds it and ships it to my house. No money has changed hands up to this point. There is an invoice rubber banded to the handguard, I then pay that invoice.It is a very small group John caters to and there is nobody who has a better name than John, plus he's pretty good with a service rifle.

My business serves a niche market too. The good news is that I am seeing hundreds of young people getting into old guns. It's probably the only area these beginners can afford to get into. They are eager to learn and enjoy repairing and restoring wood and metal. I just wish ammo and reloading supplies were more affordable for them (and us).

In our market in SC, if a guy/gal had a mobile workshop and could follow the shotgun competitions, they could do pretty good. Other shops do a good trade threading barrels for suppressors/brakes and Cerakote.

If a person could make replacement Remington parts right now, there is a huge market. I don't think the new Remington has any intention of every supplying replacement parts. There are an assload of those guns out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I don't think the new Remington has any intention of every supplying replacement parts. There are an assload of those guns out there.

Looking at the new 700's I'd say they aren't here for long....

quote:

Originally posted by gasgunner:
Just not having much luck with suppliers lately are you Duane. Same thing at the grocery store, empty shelves everywhere. I've got my theories as to why, but we better keep that to the political forum.

But you are correct, very few of us left that appreciate traditional gunsmithing and the work that you and a few others do, and the catalogs reflect that. Maybe someone needs to step up and build a company that caters to the walnut and blued steel crowd. If there is even enough of us to call it a crowd.

John

That would be jumping to conclusions...the items I ordered included dies, polishing fobs , Inletting guides..recoil pads

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
My business serves a niche market too. The good news is that I am seeing hundreds of young people getting into old guns. It's probably the only area these beginners can afford to get into. They are eager to learn and enjoy repairing and restoring wood and metal. I just wish ammo and reloading supplies were more affordable for them (and us).

In our market in SC, if a guy/gal had a mobile workshop and could follow the shotgun competitions, they could do pretty good. Other shops do a good trade threading barrels for suppressors/brakes and Cerakote.

If a person could make replacement Remington parts right now, there is a huge market. I don't think the new Remington has any intention of every supplying replacement parts. There are an assload of those guns out there.

The late Ed Aubert (N California) did exactly that... he sent a fairly inexperienced guy to drive the portable shop..kinda like a service truck.

Followed the trap shooting circuit..trouble is that he almost never avaided hitting the wood when installing a pad
.
Didn't last long! But the idea has merit.

sisons sporting goods n calif traveled the shotgun circut with several gooseneck trailers full of supplies and took in lots of work
did real well

100%. Just because Brownells (or Midway) doesn’t have it in stock, does not mean it can’t be found directly from the source or elsewhere.

It’s almost as though these retailers have given up.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
100%. Just because Brownells (or Midway) doesn’t have it in stock, does not mean it can’t be found directly from the source or elsewhere.

It’s almost as though these retailers have given up.

It may be just the opposite, Michael. Many of the suppliers to Mid and Brown may have given up dealing with these people and come to the conclusion it is in their best interest to deal customer direct. The 'middleman' demanding too much of the profit.

It is true that companies, like Brownells, were kind of a convenience for gunsmiths. For a long time, I ordered Shilen barrels 50 at a time. I got the best pricing and it worked out well. Later I often just bought barrels as I needed them, from Brownells. I guess I was buying into the "just in time" inventory idea. Wasn't long before Brownells seldom had the barrels and the manufacturers were way behind too. Prices went up to the point I couldn't make any profit on the barrel anyway so I encouraged the customers to just buy their own and I would install it. This carried over into every other aspect of parts inventorying. Add to this the demise of long-established companies (like Fajen), and the re-structuring of others, and it is easy to see how times have changed. Today, there are a lot of products which are available, providing you want to go online and search for them, but the concept of one-stop shopping has mostly disappeared. For those of us who fit into the "more mature" demographic, life has certainly changed a lot! Regards, Bill.

I think Amazon and E Bay have found a need and filled it. There's almost nothing I can't find at either of these and delivery is almostg scary.....

Whle back I ordered a mechanical pencil...maybe 8 bucks...on a Friday. It was delivered Sunday! Found such delivery to be almost normal.

Mr. Wiebe has answered the geezers lament. This is what it is and the way it will be in terms of buying stuff going forward, as backwards as that seems to geezer me. However, I'm very pleased that Brownell's still provides cheap mauser barrels (only in '98 these days, no problem turning them into SR, though) that provide good hunting accuracy. Of course, being me a hobbyist is quite different than you guys.

Y'all made me find an issue of American Rifleman I saved from 1962, when I made my dad join for me to get an A3-03, IIRC, $13.50 of lawnmowing money.

quote:

Originally posted by slivers:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
100%. Just because Brownells (or Midway) doesn’t have it in stock, does not mean it can’t be found directly from the source or elsewhere.

It’s almost as though these retailers have given up.

It may be just the opposite, Michael. Many of the suppliers to Mid and Brown may have given up dealing with these people and come to the conclusion it is in their best interest to deal customer direct. The 'middleman' demanding too much of the profit.

Jobbers and distributors have to want the work, but you are no doubt right - it's a two-way street.

Midway and Brownells offer market share and name recognition, but there is a price to pay for that if you're the manufacturer.

quote:

Originally posted by Logger2:
sisons sporting goods n calif traveled the shotgun circut with several gooseneck trailers full of supplies and took in lots of work
did real well

Logger2, I used to live in Elk Creek Ca. and work for Manville in Willows. I haven't heard that shop's name for a long time. I bought 3 Remington 700's for a package deal, priced at $150.00 each and I still have them all. This had to of been in the early to mid 80's.

I have been a customer of Brownells since the early 1980's. I used to look forward to getting the catalog for free when the new one came out. For most of those years I was ordering from Brownells, I spent probably close to 1000 a year with them. Not a spectacular amount, I admit, but still a pretty decent chunk of change. I called a few years ago when I didn't get a catalog and was told I would have to pay for one. Okay, not a big deal, gave my card number and then began the wait. A month goes by, no catalog. I call and they tell me to give it another month. Another month goes by, still no catalog. I called again, and they wanted to charge me for the second catalog. I didn't think that was fair, and told them so. The nice lady replied that since I had been a customer so long, they would go ahead and send me another one, but this would not have my customer number on it, it would be a "generic" catalog. Okay, sat down for the wait, took almost another 4 weeks to get it. so I finally received a catalog that I paid for after 3 months and two phone calls. Don't use them much anymore as I find they are priced pretty high compared to other suppliers. Well, when I thought they were really getting bad, they got worse. Received a text message today with their latest "sales", and I do use the term loosely. Powder: averaged 64.00 per pound. I bought powder a few weeks ago from another online supplier, it was Tite Group, that cost me just over 72.00 for two pounds delivered. I figure that after you add on shipping and hazmat fees from Brownells, that their sale price was over twice as much as others.
I may have been born at night, but sure as heck wasn't last night. I bet that old man Brownell would be pretty embarrassed as to what his company has become. Just my opinion.

I have had the same experience. These days, businesses that are E-commerce live and die by "likes". One bad customer service interaction and you could be screwed with bad reviews.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
I think Amazon and E Bay have found a need and filled it. There's almost nothing I can't find at either of these and delivery is almostg scary.....

Whle back I ordered a mechanical pencil...maybe 8 bucks...on a Friday. It was delivered Sunday! Found such delivery to be almost normal.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Placed an order with Brownells for eleven items. Seven were either "out of stock, discontinued, or no longer available".

A certain model Timney trigger was supposedly no lopnger available?..Ahh..... Don't think so! Sure enough, bought them direct from Timney.

About 150 pages of the catalog are devoted to combat tactical crap and every possible variant.

Not the bible of gunsmithing products that I fondly remember.

It is a sad state of affairs. My experience with Brownell‘s is they’re frequently out of most items I am interested in, and emails promoting various things from them are always about tactical crap. I hate that stuff. It’s a scourge and has been extremely destructive to sport shooting. I know that won’t necessarily be a popular opinion with everyone, but I don’t care. The products are designed to fit into some kind of pseudo dash military play acting fantasy. If it’s not in that niche, it apparently does not sell. I am a Fudd, as my son calls me. I wear it proudly. I hardly check Brownell’s lately for anything.

ronco
sissons were in a cow pasture
in converted dairy barns
and a retail shop
barns were full of inventory
about anything you could want and good pricing