Hello. I just purchased a 602 with the pop up sight. It is a 458 win mag. I could leave the rifle alone and enjoy the versatility of the 458, but I really want a 404 Jeffery. Is it possible to convert this rifle to a "working mans" 404 for under $3000? Thanks for your help. Gary

Yes.

The differences between the 458WM and the 404 are: The 404 has a slightly larger base, so the boltface/extractor need to be fitted; I'm not sure if the 602 magazine is fitted to the 458, but if so, the spacer will need to be removed to allow the longer 404 to fit. there may need to be some adjustment to the follower, rails & feed ramp to allow proper feeding, which may result in relocating the ejector; but other than that, a new barrel will get you going. Given the price of a new barrel and hourly rate for implementation of the above, the cost should be a fraction of $3000, unless you are including the cost of the rifle in your total.

Not many legitimate,licensed, capable gunsmiths still in CA. Steve Heilmann in Grass Valley would be
a "Go to" guy

However Steve has just moved to Idaho

Another California refugee.

Dave

Dorleac did a nice 404 on a BRNO 602 which can be found in a search. Just don't like how big the action is around the middle.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
However Steve has just moved to Idaho

Good for him...knew he was making the plan

Lon Paul.

quote:

Is it possible to convert this rifle to a "working mans" 404 for under $3000? Thanks for your help. Gary

It'd probably be cheaper to sell the 602 and re-barrel something like a Parker Hale in 7mm Remington Magnum or some such to .404 Jeff.

The other worry I'd have is that "odd" safety on the 602.

I have owned two 600 and also a 601 ZKK. I lost a shot at a deer as I forgot that the safety worked the other way.

As sure as eggs are eggs you will too forget that the safety works the wrong way. That is not a sensible thing for a potential dangerous game rifle.

There's better ways to get a .404 Jeff for well under $3000 than to re-work a 602.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
[QUOTE]
I have owned two 600 and also a 601 ZKK. I lost a shot at a deer as I forgot that the safety worked the other way.

As sure as eggs are eggs you will too forget that the safety works the wrong way. That is not a sensible thing for a potential dangerous game rifle.

Though I generally like side safeties, such as on my Sako, a Mod 70-type safety on the CZ would remove the doubt, despite adding yet more cost.

I have a Brno ZKK 602 with the pop-up rear site, in .375 H&H. I had the Mod. 70 style safety installed as well as a single non-Stecher trigger.

While I believe rebarreling is not itself a major undertaking for a riflesmith (the BRNO barrels are tightly fitted and my smith complained about that). Other than feeding/safety details I think the major cost detail will be how you deal with the iron sights. With the pop-up do you keep a rear island sight on the new barrel? What kind of front sight will you select to make having the pop-up sight functional? Are you keeping the factory stock, or will you want sling swivel on the barrel?

Anyway it would be good to talk to your smith about these aspects before you just simply rebarrel.

To be honest I can't see what .404 Jeff will achieve that, in the real world, on the animal you shoot, the .458 WM won't achieve. In fact the .404 Jeff is always going to be playing catch up in terms of performance to any equivalent weight bullet .458 WM load.

This, really, only makes sense if:

1) You have a stack load or .404" bullets or ammunition that cost you nothing. Or,

2) You think that there's no long term future prospect of the .458 WM remaining an off the shelf factory cartridge.

For me I'd enjoy the superb rifle that you've got, maybe look at changing out the safety and enjoy it for what it is. Spend that USD 3,000 on a hunt! That "pop-up" sight makes the ZKK a great one hundred and fifty yards rifle for use on smaller thin skinned game.

Years ago a Brno 602 in 458 Win followed me home. The 458 case seemed lost in that huge magazine and never fed quite right.Love the leaf sight on the barrel. Moved that barrel to a Mauser 98 action and I am quite happy with that setup. Found a new take-off barrel in 375 H&H. Had that barrel re-chambered to 375 RUM and installed on the Brno action. That combination feeds sliker than snot. I think the 404 would be far better suited to that action than the 458. If you choose to keep the 458 Win barrel on the Brno action you may want to consider re-chambering to 458 Lott. The Lott fills the magazine better and 458 Win ammo can still be shot in a pinch

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
To be honest I can't see what .404 Jeff will achieve that, in the real world, on the animal you shoot, the .458 WM won't achieve. In fact the .404 Jeff is always going to be playing catch up in terms of performance to any equivalent weight bullet .458 WM load.

This, really, only makes sense if:

1) You have a stack load or .404" bullets or ammunition that cost you nothing. Or,

2) You think that there's no long term future prospect of the .458 WM remaining an off the shelf factory cartridge.

For me I'd enjoy the superb rifle that you've got, maybe look at changing out the safety and enjoy it for what it is. Spend that USD 3,000 on a hunt! That "pop-up" sight makes the ZKK a great one hundred and fifty yards rifle for use on smaller thin skinned game.

True to an extent, but the 404 can be made into a slimmer lighter rifle what with recoil difference

Except on that cz action when compared to say a Mauser or a M70.

Thank you for everyone's input. This is helping me refine this project. I want to change from the 458 to 404 Jeffery because I have dreamed of having one. I will be using the 602 action with the pop up peep. I like the peep. When re-barreling, I won't be installing the original rear sights. At 64 my eyes will be happy just to regulate front sight/peep to 100 yards. I plan to use a QD Leupold long 3x scope. At this point, I would like to have all fitting, metal work and feeding issues addressed. Use original stock for a while to make sure that everything works as planned. Kind of a two phase project. After seeing the Dorleac shaped stock, I might have to spend more than I thought on the stock! From the gunsmith's point of view, is two phase plan ok or overly complicated? Better asked, would you take on a project like this or run because of the two phases? Thank you all. Gary

I know Dennis Olson has earned himself a reputation for making rifles feed flawlessly. He is located in Plains, MT. Reasonable rates and quick turnaround times. Look at it this way: get the metal working perfectly, use the stock as is and refine it over time to the way you like it then copy into a nice piece of wood and you'll have an heirloom piece to be proud of for generations to come. That can't be bad!

Gary, why not just keep or sell the 458 and watch out for an original .404 in shops and auctions. Not only might that rifle have a kind of respectable patina but should avoid risk of feeding problems. Even searching for rifles becomes an adventure in its own right.

I have thought about an original; for about 2 minutes. I haven't seen one for less than $6000, which puts it out of my league. Also, my iron sight set up is for backup or close range shooting. I would need a scope to really use the rifle, even just a 3x. I wouldn't have the heart to drill and tap an original 404.

quote:

Originally posted by GaryG:
I have thought about an original; for about 2 minutes. I haven't seen one for less than $6000, which puts it out of my league. Also, my iron sight set up is for backup or close range shooting. I would need a scope to really use the rifle, even just a 3x. I wouldn't have the heart to drill and tap an original 404.

The 404 has always been regarded as the classic and very successful African workhorse. Use a 404 for what it was made for and if you need a scope I say go for it. I drilled and tapped my original Oberndorf Type A for a 2x Leupold EER scope to avoid bolt handle modification. For 3 small scope base holes my rifle is so much more usable, can't use iron sights so good now because of my short-sightedness and need for correcting lenses.

Parker Hale did a few .404 Jeff so you may not have to go back to "way back when" to find an affordable one.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Except on that cz action when compared to say a Mauser or a M70.

To make true assessment of that, you need to look at the whole picture. Yes, the CZ 550 is the heavy weight by about 3.2 oz against 98 and pre 64 70 (ACTIONS ONLY)

The CZ bottom metal is pretty light and feeds. functions just fine. The others will need after market units.

No...you'll be within a moot point at the bottom line.

Would I choose a CZ for a 404? NO...it's jut not that good of a fit

What I meant was the m70 or 98 seems trimmer as it is not as wide at the action. and I dont have gorilla hands so that plays into my conclusion as well as to feel.

Duane, Please excuse my ignorance, but please explain what you mean when you say that the 404 is not a good fit on the Brno? Thank you. Gary

I'll bet it has to do with magazine box geometry.

It is that the 602 and the 550 are hogs of actions and are more suited to the 505 than anything smaller.
But I still like them. Built like tanks.
Your project is very doable. I would start with a new Douglas 404 barrel, look at their web site and see all the custom contours they make. Or they will copy your existing barrel too.

This is a post from another board about the conversion....I think it is referenced above:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=1#Post205429

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
This is a post from another board about the conversion....I think it is referenced above:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=1#Post205429

Krikey that’s nice. But it was already a 358 Norma??? Should have just left it and made it pretty. But I digress ...

If the OPs 404 is even close to that it’s a winner

Again, thank you everyone who has responded to this thread. It has really helped me. What I would like to know now is who has actually had their Brnos worked on and who would you recommend for a job like this? I think that I would prefer your opinions to this question to be in the form of private mails if you don't mind, so that there is no chance of gunsmith bashing or such. Thanks again. Gary

Wayne at American Hunting Rifles.

That is a beautiful rifle! I get goosebumps looking at the classic lines and the wood.

Wayne at AHR should be able to achieve that at a very reasonable cost.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
This is a post from another board about the conversion....I think it is referenced above:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=1#Post205429

Krikey that’s nice. But it was already a 358 Norma??? Should have just left it and made it pretty. But I digress ...

If the OPs 404 is even close to that it’s a winner