The synthetic vs. wood debate on the Big Game hunting board caused me to perform some research on material properties of wood (actually some of it was refresher course). Anyway, the interesting thing is that sugar or rock maple and walnut are very close to each other with regard to rupture strenth and even weight. The maple is harder by a bit. A surprise to me (but not my ancient father) was black cherry. It is almost as strong as the sugar maple (hard maple) and the walnut, while being considerably softer (easier to work with). This did not surprise my father as many of his muzzle loaders were stock with black cherry and he likes it better than walnut. He also flame hardens the stocks to improve ding resistance and it consequently darkens the wood as well. I can tell you there is an art to that.

What I found interesting are the properties of Hickory! Hickory hands down outperforms walnut (hickory is in the walnut family though) and maple with ease. It is quite a bit heavier though, but still lighter than laminate. Has anyone worked with hickory as a stock material. I am giving some serious thought to widdling out a stock for my 416 Rigby Ruger M77 (the english stock is split again).

Todd E

PS I apologize for the long post. I aslo know how hard hickory is. I have not experience carving it though.

Todd,
Did your research turn up any information on the hardness of mesquite?

George

------------------
Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

How about cast aluminum covered with some softening/sound deadening material? Or cast two halves separately so it is hollow in the buttstock and forearm but solid in the action area, then weld the two halves together. That would be light weight, stable, strong and conducive to mass production methods. Can be braced inside with cross pieces or whatever for further stability if needed.

Just a random thought that got loose.

Screwbean Mesquite, Oregon Myrtle, Flame and Tiger Stripe Maple. Take a look at my web site for a Tiger Stripe Maple photo. (This one has no stain or fire striping, just 5 rubbed in coats of True Oil). A Flame Maple stock is nearing completion, I will post a photo when it is finished.

------------------
Currently in Exile on the Beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.

My Warden sometimes allows me to respond to email. NEW Address is rifles@earthlink.net

***********Jail Flash*******
Web site under construction: http://home.earthlink.net/~rifles/

George,

No but I am not done. I to am curious about the mechanical properties of mesquite.

Jim,

A far better material would be magnesium. Additionally, I would die cast it and then you would have one by very light, stable and rugged stock assembly. This would be an expensive endeavor for a hobbist like me though. YOu should be able to get a prototype sand cast for around $10,000 - $15,000. A die cast part would be made on production level tooling and would be in the $150,000 - $200,000 range.

John,

Maple isn't really any better than a walnut. I am a sick individual that want to do hickory, which is in the walnut family so I could still say I have a walnut stock (well sort of).

Todd E

I am thinking about another source of organic stock material.

I will begin this year to raise guords or hard shelled squash and imprint the barreled actions of rifles on the vegetable as it grows. In that manner the squash will grow around the metalwork assuring an excellent veggie to metal fit. They will naurally come in camo colors, particularly if you hunt in a vegetable patch.

Delivery unfortunately may not mate up with the early hunts as ripening is in early October. The big advantage is that in case of becoming lost and in need of food, you can eat the stock.

Our research and developement team investigated using yams, sweet potatoes and zuchinis but they just did not hold up to the recoil of todays magnums. They did however make for a nice mid hunt snack.

Sorry, sometimes whimsy just overtakes me.

Jim in Idaho, I have a copy of the GUNMAKER to send you, you have been published. I will get it in the mail to you.

Chic Worthing

Check over at www.benchrest.com
In the classified section there are cast aluminum stocks for sale and in the Centerfire Forum you can do a search for Dave Scovill stocks made with a wood core covered with woven graphite fabric.

Bill

Todd, I did not intend to imply that maple was better than walnut, just something different. I don't think it belongs on a classic DGR, but it sure looks nice on a little 7x57 Mannlicher. We have got one now that is on a 40X Varminter, almost complete, nice flame colors.

Hickory? The 13th Colony that I escaped from had lots of native Hickory, I used it for various things and even made some long bows out of it. Nice bow wood. Very strong. If it had good color and grain pattern, I would be tempted to make a stock with it. You never would break one.

Hey Chic, I am thinking about wrapping a stock with green elephant hide, then letting it sun cure, like Sam Baker did to his 4-bore. Should be a good camo match in the Jesse and have excellent gripping characteristics.

------------------
Currently in Exile on the Beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.

My Warden sometimes allows me to respond to email. NEW Address is rifles@earthlink.net

***********Jail Flash*******
Web site under construction: http://home.earthlink.net/~rifles/

[This message has been edited by John Ricks (edited 01-03-2002).]

Someday I will make a BR stock using cardboard and epoxy resin. In my mind I have already done this and the result was a lightweight rigid stock that worked very well. In addition it was easily decorated using a common felt pen. Regards, Bill

Todd, $150,000? Well, Hell's Bells, man, I'll take two for that price. Seriously, I freely admit to not knowing much about industrial level production methods, just thought I'd throw out the idea.

Magnesium, huh? Makes sense, strong, very, very light. Isn't magnesium one of the materials in flares? Hmmm, I'm thinking of a High Power match on a hot desert day, rifle sits out in the sun for a couple of hours, then on to the firing line for the rapid rire string, barrel gets too hot....

But what the heck, think of what a survival tool you could have. If lost in the wilderness, just shave a few slivers off your stock and strike a spark into it!

Chic, Thanks! This is my first step to joining the hallowed ranks of O'Connor and Keith. Hell, we all make or made our homes in Idaho, that should be worth something, don't you think?

John,
I know you were not pushing maple over walnut and I must agree with you that maple (my favorite is birdseye) is a beautiful stock material. I also do not believe that it belongs on a DGR. I especially like maple stocks of period guns i.e. muzzleloaders. Thanks for the input regarding your thoughts on the durability of hickory. My reasoning is that I continue to crack stocks on my Ruger 416 Rigby and am looking for an alternative material that is one wood and two won't crack as easily as walnut. That way I can shoot it at the range with the hickory practice stock and slip on and rezero for hunting with the english stock.

Jim,
Magnesium is used to light up the sky in a flare. Although it shouldn't ignite when used as a firearm stock since the ignition temperature of magnesium is several hundred degrees higher than wood or many of the synthetics. The great advantage of magnesium is it is lighter than aluminum (66% the weight of aluminum) and more ductile; therefore, you could use a much heavier barrel within a given weight class.

Now if several people could design upon a single design or at least blank then the cost of making sand cast magnesium stocks would not be too prohibitive.

Todd

I would tend to believe in the strength of hickory. I live about 3 miles from a factory that produces axe handles out of hickory. While I have abused some rifle stocks, I've never beat one like an axe handle, even after a bad shot.

I may have to wander over there and take a stroll though the wood piles, looking for any pretty, blank sized boards...

I used hickory once for a woodworking project (bed). The dark / light grain streaking is beautiful. I found the wood to be very splintery while being worked, especially with edge routing. It is definitely a hard, tough wood. It tends to make fine, sharp slivers that embed themselves deeply in your hide. Of course, this was from a lumber yard, therefore probably kiln dried. Air dried wood might be very different.

I really like alternating dark/light grain. I could never figure out why people don't like white sapwood margins in black walnut pieces -- they can be quite striking. Cherry also has white sapwood, that makes nice contrast with heartwood.

Butternut is another member of the walnut family -- this wood is very easy to work & shape, hence it's favored use in carved panels. Waay to soft for a gunstock, though.

Boy I wandered there. Anyway, best to all,
Todd