Can you guys help me? I�ve had this real itch to have a 223 Ackley Improved. For no real specific reason other than it just turns my crank. I guess it fits my personality. Can I take my 223 Rem. and have it converted? What is the process? What kind of price should I expect? Is there any questions I should ask a gunsmith to make sure I get what I want?

I was reading somewhere where it was stated that one cann't convert a 223 Rem to 223 AI and that converting a 223 Rem to 222 Rem Mag Improved was a solution. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
-tlfw

What kind of rifle is it (ie: bolt action, semi-auto, lever, etc)? Not that it can't be done to any rifle in 223 (it can) but some will be more expensive then others. Give us a little more info please. - Dan

Bolt action rifle

Ok, then the drill goes slightly like this. Remove barrel, shorten one thread, rechamber to 223 AI, reinstall barrel, check headspace. Start fireforming cases, then work up loads, enjoy. - Dan

What you may have read is that a .223 can't simply be rechambered to the A.I. version without setting the barrel back.

This has some truth to it, depending on your requirements: If you simply rechamber without setting the barrel back, you may find that your chamber is too long in the base-to-shoulder dimension, creating a condition of excessive headspace when used with previously unfired .223 ammunition. This is especially true if your chamber was on the generous side to begin with (as most are). On the other hand, if you are a dedicated reloader with a supply of brass fired in your current chamber, provided you neck-size only, your brass will probably be sufficiently long to headspace reasonably tightly in a rechambered .223 AI. Alternatively, you can do some tricks like seating the bullet long enough on initial loads to "headspace" on the lands, or you can start with .222 Magnum brass, or you can expand the necks on .223 brass to 6mm and then neck back down leaving a false shoulder to headspace on. Or . . .

If you have need of shooting factory ammo in your new AI chamber, the the barrel should be removed and faced off so that it moves far enough rearward that the new chamber completely cleans up the old shoulder area of the former .223 chamber and headspace will be nice and tight even with factory loads.

Using a .222 Magnum AI negates the necessisty to set your .223 barrel back. Assuming a conventional bolt action rifle, either conversion is relatively cheap and inexpensive (provided the gunsmith already has the proper chambering reamer.)

Dan, Stonecreek,...thanks.

Do you think the 222 Rem Mag. AI would be a better option then the 223 AI? I don't know right know of any good gunsmiths in the Houston area. You guys know of any? What about in your area Stonecreek, Austin/ Georgetown? How does one tell a good gunsmith from a not so good one?

-tlfw

The 222 Rem Mag AI would give you a little more speed then the 223 AI (I think), but not much. I would stick with the 223 AI simply because so much more brass is available. I know, I know, once you have X number of brass, how much more do you need? I can't help it, I'm an inveterate scounger. - Dan

I know of a good one in Rosenberg.

How much velcoity do you gain going from a standard .223 to the AI versions mentioned? How do they stack up against the other "hot" .22's such as the 22-250?

Regards,

Pete

Pete , I think most of the AI guys talk about 50 grs pills at around 3600 fps . Sure , the 22/250 will get 200 fps more pretty easy , but with a much bigger powder charge and little practical gain in trajectory . Considering the almost free brass we have here and the meager diet of powder , the .223 and the AI version make most other .22 centerfirees superfluous in my view .........

[ 09-18-2003, 15:12: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

sdgunslinger,

Thanks for the info...As a .223 owner myself who sometimes wanted a "little more" this thread is quite interesting...

Regards,

Pete

No secret I'm a 223AI fiend,as are all of my shooting pards. The tally here,is well over a dozen of them now between us and the camo rifle below is my sixth and the purple one another buddy's third.





It shoots fairly well and despite it's 21" tube makes nice speeds. I have them in 20,21,22,23 and 24" lengths and prefer the shortest variants.



The chambering has largely retired all of my bigger 22's and if I thought I was missing something,I'd be shooting them instead(because they sit dormant in the closets). I like 50's at 3700fps+ and lean on them for most everything.

In my opinion it is far and away the best 22 going..................

As with most of the improved cartridges, the increased velocity comes mostly from the willingness of the owner to increase pressures until the desired velocity gain is achieved.

I have no qualms about the .223 AI and know that a number of its owners swear by it. But having shot a .222, .223, and .222 Magnum in virtually identical rifles for many years, I know that the difference in their performances when loaded to similar pressures is not all that great.

The .222 Magnum is very slighly greater in capacity to the .223 AI, but for purposes of discussion, consider them the same. I know from experience with three different .222 Magnums and five different .223s that the velocity difference in the two with identical bullets and identical pressures is less than 50 fps; in fact, it is less than the difference in individual barrels in the same caliber.

My point is that if you want to convert to .223 AI, then that's fine and offers perhaps some advantages to a reloader. But don't expect to see huge velocity jumps without proportinal jumps in pressures.

A claimed benefit of AI is the lack of case trimming required and subsequent increased case life.

I have never trimmed an AI case, but I sure have thrown them away because of primer pocket growth.

There may be a zone of pressure where the AI cases do not grow in length or primer pocket, and yet the non AI grow and must be trimmed. Working the upper limit of that zone may represent a velocity benefit beyond the scope of AI increase in case capacity.

I take handloading equiptment to the range and test a load to see how many times I can load the case.

Back on the .223 Rem:

IMR website: .223 Rem, 55 gr, IMR 4895 26.0 gr, 3120 fps, 51100 psi

It seems I can get away with 28 gr.

Hodgdon website: 223 Rem, H335, 25.3 GR. 55 GR. SPR SP, 2.200", 24" barrel, 3203 fps, 49,300 CUP

It seems I can get away with 29 gr without primer pocket growth.

So Clark , what does your chrono show with for instance , the 29 gr of H335 ?

FWIW , my .223 standard case with a 22 inch barrel shows right at 3500 fps (50 gr V-max) with Hodgon's max charge of H4895 .

'slinger,

I concur. Even Nosler(#5)grants 3540fps via 50gr projectile. Add the capacity increase of the Improved round and couple it with moly and over 3700fps is a reality at sane pressures(indicative of brass life,in my rifles).

I've used the above recipe in all six of my barrels with uniform results. I find it to be a wonderously effective platform and my intent isn't to form hulls and then beat their pockets out in short order,as that is diminishing reurns(understatement).

The thing is,that it don't take 98grs of H2O capacity to push a 50gr pill at a good clip. The 223AI melds ample capacity,with great component availability and a modest propellant appetite. More to the point,it does very good things(my opinion,of course) in a modest lengthed tube,as it doesn't take a 50" barrel to effectively consume it's fuel.

Naysayers won't believe the sun is gonna rise in the AM either. Having been on both sides of the fence,all I can say is that I'm formulating yet another rifle so chambered,as I doubt the first 6 were flukes(grin).

Great cartridge and I won't touch upon the wonderous effects of the 40grainer at 4000fps(grin)..................

Just curious, what twists y'all have in your AI's? I have a Pac-Nor 27" SSSM on a Savage 12FV action, 1:8 twist, and can't get groups under 0.75" using 50 gr Nosler BTs at 100 yds with it. It prints 0.6" groups at 200 yards with the 75gr. AMax and Berger at about 2900. This was the (and still is) load I meant the rifle for, but it would be nice to get a good load for the lighter bullets for shorter range stuff. I am thinking that the 1:8 twist is just too fast for the lighter bullets at the 3500+ that is easily achieved.

I second all the praise posted here regarding the 223 AI. It is one flexible cartridge.

My initial thoughts would be your throat geometry is not condusive to the 50's. I've shot some tidy groups with 1-9" AR's(Bushy) via the 40 and 50gr V-Max.

My 24" S/S PacNor SuperMatch 1-12" 223AI is by far my most stellar performer and is my "yardstick" for accuracy potential. 50's are my favorite in it as well,though I had it throated in accordance.

You might try the 60gr V-Max,as a happy medium. That due to my dangerous assumption that throating is largely your culprit......................

The throat is certainly a place to look. Also, I feel that the 8" twist is overspinning the 50 gr bullet. I think you get the best accuracy out of a bullet with the slowest twist possible. The 8" is right on for the 75 gr A-Max, but a little fast for a 50.

223 AI dittos

One more rifle to add to the mix. Bill Leeper made my 223AI. It has a Pac-Nor stainless super match 24", #3 contour, 14 twist barrel. The 14 twist may not like 60 grain bullets, but who cares? I didn't build a 223 hunting rifle to shoot heavy bullets.

With WW cases, F205M primers, 50 grain V-Maxes and 28.5 grains of H335, I get incredibly consistent velocities right at 3650 fps. Groups? If a shot on a 100 yard target doesn't touch the hole made by preceeding bullets, it's my fault. 5-shot groups under .4 are the norm, with too many groups at or under 1/4" for them to be flukes.

I don't know what pressures this load generates, but I enjoy long case life with minimal primer pocket size increases. It's a keeper...