While talking with a friend about my new rifle project he mentioned Kreiger Barrels as an alternative. Has anyone had any experiences with these cut-rifled barrels, either good or bad? I've seen their web site and catalog but other than this guy, who doesn't own one, haven't run across anyone with first hand knowledge.

Almost all of the shooters I shoot with who have the rank of "High Master" use Kreiger barrels. Last weekend the 100-yard, 100-shot off-hand match was won by a High Master who shot 969 - 28X (out of a possible 1000) using a Kreiger barrel.

If this is for a rifle to be used for hunting, I'm not so sure that under hunting conditions the cost and the benefit derived from a Kreiger barrel can be justified.

Just my opinion.

Kreiger, Hart and Shilen are about the top 3 winning barrels used for benchrest and or High Power competition. Kreigers are real strong with the high power crowd. I do not own one but I can attest to their performance on the line.

Lewis50:
I've got a 24" Kreiger barrel chambered in .257 Imp. and they also blueprinted the action. Those guys are top notch in my book and worth the money. I knew they'd do it & do it right the first time.
Bear in Fairbanks

[ 04-12-2003, 21:39: Message edited by: Bear in Fairbanks ]

I have owned Krieger, PacNor, and Shilen. If you are looking for a accuracy as in benchrest or highpower, you can't go wrong with a Kreiger, Hart, Lothar Walther, or Shilen. If it's simply a hunting rifle you want and high end accuracy is not required go with PacNor, ER Shaw, or the Shilen/Douglas lower grade barrels and save some money.

I used Krieger barrels for years and they are absolutly excellent barrels...Now I have gone over to Lothar Walther along with a lot of gunsmiths I know...I think LW is a better barrel.

Chris S--

I've never seen an unlapped Lothar-Walthar barrel unless it was obtained from Blackstar before they messed with it.

L-W barrels, if anything, are too slick. I shoot moly in all of mine and never had anything but GREAT results. ........In fact, I've not had anything but better than expected accuray from L-W barrels......and I've used a BUNCH of em.

I had Krieger do my last rifle,a heavy barreled 25-06 and was quite pleased with the results. So much so I sent them another, six plus months and waiting and I'm wearing out the window looking for the UPS truck, but I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. dempsey

I am not a gunsmith and have never looked at a Lothar Walther with a bore-scope, but looking down their tubes with the naked eye they look exceptionally smooth. It is my understanding that they claim their manufacturing equipment, particularly their deep hole drilling equipment and ability to drill straight is not merely state of the art, but superior to any and everyone else. If Woody is listening in, it would be nice to here him discuss Lothar's manufacturing equipment, I think in quality and precision, it is quite impressive.

Jordan

Ray, How is the Walther better than the Kreiger? We used them for a few projects and the barrels seemed heavier for contour that other barrells we have used. What feature has changed your mind?Ray, How is the Walther better than the Kreiger? We used them for a few projects and the barrels seemed heavier for contour that other barrels we have used. What feature has changed your mind?

I'm an aspiring International Palma competitor, and I can tell you that, generally speaking, Krieger barrels are considered the "Mount Everest", the "Rolls Royce", the "Stradivarius" -- choose your analogy -- of barrels. The general consensus is if you can afford it, you can't go wrong.

While overall, the Kreiger is a terrific barrel, they still are stuck with one big headache that being breakin. To be fair, all cut rifled barrels will foul more up front than barrels made using a different process. However, I hate that dinking around none the less. The end result is worth it, but why put up with the hassle when you don't have to. From here on out, I think all my new barrels will be Broughtons. The interior finish is barrel for barrel the best in the industry, and they clean up so much better initially that I can't see buying a cut rifled barrel again. While the cut rifled process is better in theory, in practice a good button barrel will stand right along side the cut barrel as long as the stress relieve process is done well.

Broughton barrels

Gabe

Krieger barrels ARE lapped and they are a top quality barrel.

John

jpb

Have you owned any cut barrels other than the Border? I'm curious how they performed. While I can't speak for Border, I have owned three Obermeyers five Rocks and two Kriegers. All cut barrels, all fouled when new, all are lapped before being shipped. The truth of the matter here though is not the method of forming the rifling, rather the care taken during that final lapping stage. The cut process however does IMO make the lapping process more critical because it leaves the cutting tool streaks in the bore. To keep the initial fouling down, those streaks must be rounded so to speak and the sharp corners need to be knocked off. The button or hammer forging processess by contrast leave a smoother internal finish to begin with making the final lapping less critical. All of the great makers however lap after forming rifling and that is the stage were the break in fouling can potentially be minimized.

I'm really not knocking the cut rifling process it's just that I don't know of a cut barrel maker that gets that lapping stage correct every time. Like I said, I really HATE cleaning more than I have to.

Gabe

I have a H-S Precision barrel and it is also cut rifled. The cut rifling process does not seem to make it harder to clean to me. In fact, it is probably the eaiest barrel to clean. Other barrels I have used are Lothar Walther, JP Enterprise, Wilson, and stock Remington and Sako barrels. From personal experience, I would not hesitate to rebarrel with H-S Precision barrel when the time comes to get new barrels on any of my rifles.

I do not consider the Krieger barrels to be an alternative. I think of them as THE barrel to use. All the rest are alternatives.

I have one in .223 Remington on a Mountain Research rifle and I can not get it to foul. I don't know what I have to if I wanted to get get copper to stay in the bore (which I don't), but it is not shooting it

[ 04-17-2003, 23:36: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Interesting to me is the fact that Krieger barrels were probably more recognized in Canadian Full-Bore (high-power) competition than in Amreican high-power, in the early years of John Krieger's business.

The reason was...John Krieger would cut barrels with whatever bore size was required... 306", .307", .308", whatever.

With the IVI and other NATO 7.62 ammo made outside the U.S., the standard NATO bullet was a nominal 147 gr. BT. Standard Canadian 7.62 NATO full-bore ammo issued to the PRAs (Provincial Rifle Associations) in the late '70s was IVI '74.

Actual weighing of several hundred IVI '74 bullets showed them to be more like 144 grs than 147 grs on average. Mic'ing their diameters showed figures more like .306"-.3065" rather than .308". A short 144 gr. bullet, of .306" diameter, with a pointy nose and a boat-tail really needs a TIGHT barrel to overcome the undersized diameter and the very short bearing surface.

John Krieger would make such barrels and it's my understanding that he still will, on request.
That's one advantage of the cut rifling process...you don't need a really expensive new button to rifle a few such barrels.

Another is that you don't need to go through the de-stressing operations that apply (to quite different degrees) in either button rifled or hammer-forged barrels.

Further, Kreiger barrels are always stress relieved before drilling and rifling, and again after manufacture is completed if requested. The "before cutting" stress relief makes the bores generally straighter before they are rifled, which sure doesn't hurt any.

Incidentally, when talking about second or lesser quality barrels...ALL barrel manufacturers make "hummers" and ALL barrel manufacturers make "bummers". It is the percentage of each which varies from one maker to another. My experience has been that I get the most hummers and the fewest bummers from Hart, Lilja, and Krieger, not necessarily in that order.

AC

[ 04-18-2003, 00:18: Message edited by: Alberta Canuck ]

john and custom

I am not claiming that the rifling process used to make a barrel has anything to do with how it cleans up after break in. What I have seen with several cut barrels though is that break in seems to take longer. This is the only point of my previous posts.

Gabe