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| One of Us |
I would like some advice from the experts in this area on the drilling and tapping for a large ring Oberndorf Mauser 98. 1) Is this possible without needing to forge the bolt handle I would like to avoid this as it is an original Oberndorf Sporter Type B. 2) The best jig to use for drilling and tapping the receiver and how you would go about it 3) The best mounts and scope for shooting out maximum to 200 yards it is in 30-06 cal. I would be really greatful for some info/ advice keeping in mind I would like to scope the rifle but not risk ruining an Oberndorf sporter. Thanks | ||
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The only type of scope mount that will not "ruin" an Oberndorf sporter would be original style SEM, preferably with the front mount on the barrel. Are you sure this an Oberndorf sporter and not just a sporterized Oberndorf? Pics would help. | |||
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I am puzzled as to why you are hesitant to bend the bolt but not to drill four holes in the top of the reciever. Either one will seriously diminish collector value if it exists. If you are really concerned about the bolt, simply find another bolt that headspaces. It has been my experience that the mausers are incredibly close toleranced regarding headspace. The rifle under consideration just needs acceptable headspace, not a benchrest fit. Get another bolt, modify it (I much prefer a new weld on) and keep the original. As to jigs, I have had perfect performance from the small bolt in Williams unit that does large and small rings. It works perfectly, even for one piece mounts, and is quick and easy with a drill press. Would likely even work with a hand drill. | |||
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 As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Hi, Welcome to the forum. Add 4 holes and it will no longer be original. Put a peep sight on the striker and be happy. Luck, Stephen | |||
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Yep what Art said once you D&T it altering the bolt doesn't matter anymore.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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Will post pictures in a few days as I am currently travelling, my take on D&T was that it is easier to accomplish as compared to forging the bolt handle which involves heat treatment and could potentially ruin the bolt. Any ideas where I could get the most suitable rings. I have read about using silver solder so as to avoid D&T anyone with advice on the pros and cons of this method. Thanks in advance. | |||
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I don't know how you would use the existing bolt without altering it. There is not "best Jig" for that job unless you use a milling machine to do it correctly. I have seen D&T jobs screwed up by using on of those jigs. DO it RIGHT. DOn't drill into the locking lug area. Most of the mounts out there are suitable, stay away from the aluminum ones. I have a few spare bolts whick could be made to fit. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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Dont do it. If it's an original sporting rifle only a fool would take a drill to it | |||
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I guess I will get over some pictures to you guys first then it will be easier to see what I am talking about. We can take it from there thanks guys. | |||
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When I came into possession of this .30-'06 original Mauser sporter, it had already had the bolt handle altered by grinding and the left side of the receiver had been drilled and tapped for a side mount. Griffin & Howe were able to use the pre-existing holes to secure their side mount and preserve the markings on the receiver ring.  | |||
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IMO there are 3 ways to go here since apparently you want a scope. Ask what the old-time 'best' gunmakers would do: Mauser, Sauer & other Euro makers: claw mount, with or without altered bolt handle H&H, Rigby & other UK makers: claw or side mount, with or without altered bolt handle G&H, Hoffman & other US makers: side mount, with or without altered bolt handle Please note that none repeat NONE of these options include drilling & tapping the top of the receiver ring! Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Thanks JD Steele, Xusa, that is something I was looking for any of you know where I could get good claw or side mounts for the Mauser and what are the best ones on the market. | |||
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No you have it wrong Nathan, those that take to original Mauser Sporters with a drill are not fools, they are true shooters and hunters who use their rifles for what they were designed for. I don't denigrate collectors they just have different perspectives and needs. Go ahead 401Nitro and drill and tap the receiver and the bridge and put some good Weaver style bases and rings on but you must get the bolt handle re-welded and shaped to get a good low scope mount position. Don't put those ridiculous carry handle style mounts on where your head wavers around in the wind as your neck is stretched to Mt Everest heights to see through the scope. Now that is foolish, does nothing to aid quick target acquisition, nothing to aid accuracy and just looks plain useless on a hunting rifle. An alternative if you do not wish to get carried away on altering the bolt is an EER scope mounted in a semi-scout position i.e. ocular lense positioned just in front of the rear bridge. I have such a mount on my Type A Oberndorf and it has served me for 30 odd years. | |||
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Thanks Eagle 27 would you have a picture on hand and what type of mounting system have you used to fit the scope on with. I would love to see some pictures so I could visualize the possibilities. | |||
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Here is my set up with the 2x Leupold using a one piece Weaver base with two screws into the receiver and a single central screw into the rear shoulder of the safari sight and 2mm high original Weaver rings. Base and screws epoxied glue too. I originally put this mount on for a green dot single point sight and although this was good on game it was not great when developing loads off the bench. There are 4x and vari power EER scopes available nowadays for those wanting more magnification and field of view. This mounting is not to everyone's liking and I have been berated for buggering a good Mauser with low life Weaver mounts and rings and a horror of horrors an EER scope. Well this hunting set up has never moved in over thirty years of use, albiet on NZ "plains game", but I know what it can do and I know what I can do with it so I just leave it at that.    | |||
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Since I have over a dozen rifles with G&H side mounts, I'm certainly prejudiced, but they have never failed me, or anyone else I know. Griffin & Howe still sell and install them and do a beautiful job of it. The resulting installation looks as though the mount base has grown out of the side of the receiver, with no trace of the three screws and two tapered dowel pins used to secure it. This is a Griffin & Howe installed side mount on a Griffin & Howe rifle. As you can see, there is not a trace of a screw head or a dowel pin on the base.  | |||
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Eagle No one has ever doubted the function of Weaver mounts. They are just ugly as sin and reek of Kmart/ Walmart gunsmithing. Function no doubt but just ugly. Now as for Drilling and taping the Oberndorf It will detract from it's collector value only if a decent classic mounting system is not used. A set of custom claw mounts at the high end of the scale then at the lower side of thing is a set of talley's williams or something like what I make. Installed correctly they add to the value of the rifle as a working collectors piece. Are they a flawless examples of a classic rifle with ultra high collector value? Nope does it bubbu the rifle to the point that it has no other value then a door stop. Nope www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Thanks guys, some of those rifles look really good, I have narrowed it down to NECG or G&H, NECG's Paul Jaeger Mount also looks good. Now to decide!! | |||
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If it's a Model 1906, then I would go the G&H route. If i's a Type B, then either SEM or a German designed side mount, such as by EAW. If it is a Type A, then possibly something British (Rigby style). Jaeger mounts are post war (and getting very difficult to find). The remaining units have been inherited by NECG. | |||
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Not all of 'em, I have several NOS examples with as-yet-unfitted blank bases and windage adjustment. Here's one.  Here's another with unfitted base already cut for a LR Mauser.  The oversize screws allow custom fitting the installation so that no screw heads show and the installed base looks like an integral part of the receiver. I don't know what NECG is getting for theirs but I'll bet I can beat their price..... Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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I agree, five years ago, I bought a 1937 vintage Obie Type B-9.3x62. The metal is 85-90% original, pristine bore and used but rocksolid wood. It has the tiny factory bead front and triple folding rear sights and I shot sub-moa groups at 100M with Norma factory 286 Oryx ammo. The previous owner had replaced the recoil pad with a Pachmayr and also partially glassbedded it, yet, he pissed and moaned like an urban poseur when I hade it DTed and EAW pivot mounts installed, holding a 4xLeupy. I have not, but, may have a Satterlee 3-pos. safety I have installed and a Lyman cocking piece tang sight if I can find a 1909 Peruvian long cocking piece to do so. Does this "ruin" an irreplaceable work of art and am I, therefore, a "Philistine" for scoping it, one wonders? Hell, no, this was a carefully looked after, well-preserved WORKING big game hunting and protection rifle and it WORKS BETTER with a good scope in appropriate mounts, end of story. I would not DT an truely MINT one, but, the fact is that the same guy who whinged about my DTing this one, had modified it himself first............in all the years he owned it, he had never taken it hunting, either, which is what these rifles were made for. So, I think that one should consider each rifle/case on it's own merits and then decide as some mounts do not detract from either the aesthetic or monetary intrinsic value of a rifle, IMO. | |||
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+1 www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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J D Steele your mounts look good too,I guess I will need to decide based on what is going to be the easiest to fit and availability versus price keeping aesthetics in mind. | |||
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Of course KC I or whoever inherits the Mauser after me still has the option of fitting what you are calling a decent classic mounting system at a later date, one reason why I did not want to carry out any major alterations to the rifle such as altering the bolt etc when fitting a scope. My rifle has already been opened up to .404 Jeffery from the smaller 10.75x68 chambering before I got it so as a pure collector that is now gone but it is still a genuine Oberndorf Type A No 1 Sporter and in some ways opened up sporters are a piece of history in themselves. As to concepts of beauty or ugly, like a good woman I suppose that is a matter of taste, and most of us go for practicality and usefulness over beauty. I don't really want a playboy bunny .404  | |||
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Modifying original Oberndorf sporting mausers to mount scopes is far from anything new or foolish. It was done in Europe many yrs ago[and over many yrs] for those practical sporting hunters who wanted to use a scope [no different to today]. Even Rigby,Jeffery etc, modified/machined [and put holes]in orig. Oberndorf actions to mount scopes. I think the most important thing is to decide whether you value the collector value of the orig. rifle more, or value more the many yrs of hunting experiences you are bound to enjoy/remember after having the advantage of a scope fitted. I rather the Drill&Tap method over the slotted front receiver ring method[to mount scope base]that they used back in the period.       ...and it wasn't uncommon for the later release Commercial Brnos to get the same treatment.   Jeffery machined down the rear square bridge & drill-tapped this orig.Oberndorf Mag mauser action to install the base.  | |||
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The Mauser Type B I am talking about has in any case been reproofed with British Proof Marks the side of the Receiver Ring has the British proofs BV BP NP, on the Barrel is again BV and the caliber so I am assuming that I could use English style mounts as well however the claw mounts do look very good on a type B, more confusion till I make a decision. | |||
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Trax thank you for the pictures those show some fabulous looking rifles with scopes fitted. | |||
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Some nice Mausers there Trax but I guess they all emphasis my point that in order to mount a scope on an original unaltered Mauser one has to go with what I see as ugly high European mounts. I suppose they may contribute to the collectability of the firearm but that still does not make them nice or that very functional. The Mauser sporters were really designed for open sight use hence the dropped stock and any scope that is mounted much higher than the open sights means the shooter holds his head well up off the stock and this has definitely been proven as not good for snap shooting or even deliberate shooting. I should not be so disparaging I suppose but these European type scope mountings do remind me of AR15 carry handles. I spent some time when in Germany converting a few of my German friends rifles over to Weaver bases with low rings. He had learned from hunting in NZ that the European type mounts and rings do not cut the mustard when it comes to tough hunting for truly wild red deer, chamois and tahr in the conditions we hunt in. Maybe sitting comfortably in a hochsitz with all the time in the world to aim and shoot (and I've done a bit of it) a hunter can compensate for less functional collector grade mounting systems. Not for me I'm afraid, hence my ugly (if you like) but very functional and reliable Weaver mounted EER Leupold shown in my earlier post. | |||
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The weaver system is a very durable system if they made all steel (rings and bases). The German way back in the older days the scope was an added option to the ironsights. I haven`t heard before now these classic scopemounts doesn`t work at all especially in NZ. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Eagle Anytime a scope is mounted so that your face is not in firm contact with the stock while having a perfect sight picture is asking for a miss. Remounting the scope as you have stated solves that problem no mater what system you use. Again I just don't care for the weaver strap ring look Nor do I care for their 7/8" dove tail. The system is perfectly fine for function and strength though. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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