This my sound a little strange, but can someone please post (or email me - rcfortenb at yahoo dot com) some pic's of wood stocks that have been professionally "glass" (epoxy, whatever) bedded? Please?

I have bedded several of my own, and a few for friends, with great results accuracy-wise, but just can't help but wonder if they look anything close to a professional job.

Thanks!!!

Hey, if what you’re doing gives good results and good accuracy who the hell cares what it looks like?

This is how my Ruger 77 Mk II VT got bedded :

quote:

Hey, if what you’re doing gives good results and good accuracy who the hell cares what it looks like

I'm with Rick. I've bedded for 30 years. I've had just a couple that looked like Andre's. The rest wouldn't win any beauty prizes but they served their purpose.

Maybe it’s just the lighting but that picture looks like someone just brushed a thin layer of bedding material on with a brush.

Savage With rear piller

The only suggestion I would make is that if you want to get the full benefit of a bedding job you need to relieve the wood a bit more so you can get some bedding material in there.

The bedding on the ones pictured appears to me to be paper thin and in some spots not there at all. To get the full strength of the material it has to have some depth to it around the recoil lug and the pillars.

No offense to anyone here, but I worked with an engineer at one time who on occassion would make the comment, "It's fine as far as form, fit, and function goes, but it looks like shit".

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
No offense to anyone here, but I worked with an engineer at one time who on occassion would make the comment, "It's fine as far as form, fit, and function goes, but it looks like shit".

Thanks Craigster, but I just spilled my beer all over the keyboard!

Rick, my understanding is the thinner the better. As long as the surface has a profile that will grip the epoxy, there is no minimum dimension. The only time it's a problem is poor mixing or otherwise bad bonding.

A thin layer of epoxy is too flexible and in my mind, doesn't provide the "stable platform" originally intended with this type of bedding. The use of epoxy as a bedding material, is supposed to provide a protective barrier against those forces, which would otherwise damage the more malleable wood substructure.

Well, not to split hairs but wood isn't that maleable; it just isn't practical to inlet to the degree shown on SDH's shotgun in every case. If it were, glass bedding would never be necessary. The epoxy isn't for strength, it's for even bearing surface.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Well, not to split hairs but wood isn't that maleable; it just isn't practical to inlet to the degree shown on SDH's shotgun in every case. If it were, glass bedding would never be necessary. The epoxy isn't for strength, it's for even bearing surface.

I'm not talking museum pieces, I'm talking about heavily used, and heavily abused rifles exposed to harsh elements. The kind of guns I see come through my shop day in and day out. The guns I'm talking about require more support than wood alone can provide.

What do you mean by professional? A professional bedding of a factory rifle? Or a custom job?

The reason why glass bedding works in factory rifles is to properly mate the action to wood. A custom rifle that has been properly inletted (stocker has not cut corners) needs no bedding at all, the action has already been "bedded" to the stock by inletting the wood to that specific action.

Bedding is bedding, whether done by a professional or not. As alluded to earlier, a professional job may look "prettier" but who looks under tha action anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Rick, my understanding is the thinner the better. As long as the surface has a profile that will grip the epoxy, there is no minimum dimension. The only time it's a problem is poor mixing or otherwise bad bonding.

tiggertate,

It is my understanding that the purpose of epoxy bedding is to provide a form fitting solid platform for the receiver that will resist compression,recoil, and will be essentially uneffected by the elements.

In order to fill those requirements you need to have some depth to the epoxy. Thin, brushed on epoxy is fine for weather proofing barrel channels and such but not for creating a solid platform for the barreled receiver.

As long as there is no gap, the thickness is not an issue. Is is battering that affects either the wood the glass bedding and if done properly, there is no opportunity for the metal to shift enough to batter. Some epoxies I have used have been brittle enough to shatter when very thin but that is simply a poor product for the application, not an unavoidable result. It is the character of the product, not it's dimension. In a good wood stock, a few mills of MarineTex would work just as well a 16th or 8th.

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
Hand inlett, no bedding.

Now come on, Steve. You know damn well there are precious few folks who can do what you do as
it applies to inletting. And even fewer who can afford to pay your fees. Otherwise there would be no bedding products at
all. Supply and demand, you know.

Bedding products allow us mortals to have a
stock, God forbid, even a factory stock, that
has good metal to wood fit. I believe the goal
is accuracy, not necessarily the best available
as far as looks and materials are concerned.

Certainly you must be aware that there are "best quality" guns, and then there is the rest of them. In my gun world, there is room for both.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
A custom rifle that has been properly inletted (stocker has not cut corners) needs no bedding at all, the action has already been "bedded" to the stock by inletting the wood to that specific action.

I agree, however, if the custom inletted stocked rifle is subjected to the same ill care and abusive treatment that most factory guns receive, that custom fit will rapidly deteriorate to the point where some additional bedding will more than likely be required. These are the folks I deal with...

quote:

Bedding is bedding, whether done by a professional or not. As alluded to earlier, a professional job may look "prettier" but who looks under tha action anyway?

The guy who's paying the bill, and it better look pretty.

quote:

Bedding is bedding, whether done by a professional or not. As alluded to earlier, a professional job may look "prettier" but who looks under tha action anyway?

The guy who's paying the bill, and it better look pretty. [/QUOTE]

DING DING DING DING give that man a cigar!

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
As long as there is no gap, the thickness is not an issue. Is is battering that affects either the wood the glass bedding and if done properly, there is no opportunity for the metal to shift enough to batter. Some epoxies I have used have been brittle enough to shatter when very thin but that is simply a poor product for the application, not an unavoidable result. It is the character of the product, not it's dimension. In a good wood stock, a few mills of MarineTex would work just as well a 16th or 8th.

Brother, I will respectfully disagree, but hey...that’s what makes life interesting.

As with most endeavors it is best to start out with a full understanding of what it is your are trying to accomplish.

If all you are trying to accomplish is a form-fit, or weather proofing, then a thin painted on layer works just fine.

If, however, you are bedding for accuracy and a stable platform that resists compression then you must relieve the inletting to allow for some depth to the bedding material.

I use Devcon exclusively for bedding, and I’ve had numerous conversations with their tech department about the best ways to use and apply their products in order to take full advantage of the strength.

If you talk to shops that do allot of bedding/pillar jobs you will find that all of them relieve the inletting to get some depth to the bedding material behind the recoil lug, under the receiver ring and the tang, and under both tangs of the trigger guard.

Skim bedding works fine on those stocks that have the aluminum bedding block...but that is just to get a custom fit of the receiver to the block, which unlike wood is non-compressible and totally uneffected by changes in the weather.

Well, living in the Houston area we have one level of humidity and damn little variation in temps so maybe my success is "regional", LOL.

I used to hog out some wood with "islands" on centers so that the material didn't make a mess when I squished the action in place. The last 5 years or so I've gone to skim bedding with no perceived gain or loss in performance. The only time I remove much material is when I feel the action is riding high in the stock. But then I'm the guy who says pillars are redundant in a wood stock and so far in 4 years, no one has agreed with me.

At least I'm consistent.

Yeah, I did a shotgun buttstokk that looked like that-I called it my 5 snowstorm stock. Everytime my regular job was cancelled one winter due to snow, I worked on the stock. I do target rifles now, and the thicker the epoxy is in the stock, the less the wood can swell and shift the bedding. My favorite is an aluminum block epoxied into a gaping hole in the stock, epoxied into the wood, then skim coated with epoxy to make 100% contact with the action. Strong, like ze bool!

PS-Have photos, but can't post them here, apparently.

tiggertate,

About the only thing I am totally consistent in is being wrong!

I’ve spent allot of time in Houston and you’re right, you have one level of humidity...HIGH!!!

About the only difference in Houston and New Orleans is that you guys were smart enough to build ABOVE sea level...not allot, but at least you’ve got a little bit before you go under!

Our turn is coming. Most of the area inside 610 has subsided 5-6 feet since 1965. At that rate, we'll be at sea level by 2046. One nice thing about the humidity; I never had to build a box to rust blue...

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Our turn is coming. Most of the area inside 610 has subsided 5-6 feet since 1965. At that rate, we'll be at sea level by 2046. One nice thing about the humidity; I never had to build a box to rust blue...

I don’t know about you brother, but 2046 is a year I probably will miss out on!

The purpose of bedding the recoil lug is to provide a uniform base. It is similar with the base on a roadway in that it transmits the force of the recoil into the wood. There is an exception. In a roadway the force is only exerted at the foot print of the tires. In that case the greater the depth of the "bedding" (graded gravels) the wider the distribution of the load. In our case with rifles, the footprint is the total width of the bedding and when the load is transmitted to the wood it is the same as no matter what the depth. Thickness does not help.

You can inlet and have perfect contact with the wood and it will perform the same function. It is a lot harder to do and you can have minute differences in contact with the wood and not know it and actually have no way of realizing it. Glass bedding overcomes those problems. I used to always do my stocks for a wood to metal fit and now I feel that I was doing a disservice to my customers. Not one that they may ever realize but a tiny bit of glass can improve things in most cases. If you have a perfect wood to metal fit and add some expoxy it will all be squeexed out. One advantage is that it will seal that surface also as well as giving you a perfect contact surface.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Our turn is coming. Most of the area inside 610 has subsided 5-6 feet since 1965. At that rate, we'll be at sea level by 2046. One nice thing about the humidity; I never had to build a box to rust blue...

I don’t know about you brother, but 2046 is a year I probably will miss out on!

Keep the faith, dude. Nanobots are coming!!!

Thanks for that trick, SDH. I have to stock a Fraser reproduction pretty soon and all the tips are helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
I am wondering how inletting gets "ill care" or "abuse"?
SDH

A lot of folks just don't take care of their stuff. They don't check their guard screws, or they let their rifles sit out in the rain and snow for long periods of time without pulling them down and properly drying things out etc., and if they treat their fine custom, hand bedded rifles with the same care they do their factory stuff, then I'm saying it won't be long before that fine rifle shows up with damage no matter how well the gun was bedded initially. That is the ill care and abuse I was referring to.

A very common problem with inletting on wooden stocks is those guys that love to drown their rifles in oil. That oil eventually turns the wood into a pluppy mess.

Here's the bedding of the two lugs on my 416 Rem. Someday I will learn to use this $%#$^ camera.



I think it is just as important to bed the bottom metal as the top, which I did. But the pictures are just shiny reflections....

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
A very common problem with inletting on wooden stocks is those guys that love to drown their rifles in oil. That oil eventually turns the wood into a pluppy mess.

"Pluppy"??! Is that a word in California? (Just funnin')

Actually Glen, there are only two kinds of people...those that can spell, and those that can’t!

Read that as “PULPY†as in mushy!