I am a glass half full kind of guy so I prefer to think of those rings as free. If you order a rifle at the regular price you get a set of rings for free.
Actually, and in all seriousness, I have been a huge fan of David Miller's scope mounting system for years. D'Arcy Echols system however makes more sense, is wonderfully crafted and precise, astetically more pleasing, and they're one of the reasons I've opened a new savings acount.
Chuck
Posts: 2659 | Location: Southwestern Alberta | Registered: 08 March 2003
FYI I spoke with Mr. Echols a short while back about getting one of his Legend stocks for a Montana 1999 action. Well, yesterday the UPS man delivered it. Fellas, to my eye, this is the nicest synthetic stock I have ever seen. It is inletted for the Montana action. I placed the action in the stock and it appears as if you could just screw it in and go shoot. I will, however, bed it to get best accuracy.
To say that I am pleased with this stock is a huge understatement !!!!!
I want to thank Mr. Echols for making this stock available to us. Pat Byrne
does anyone know the status on LH Legends? Last I heard he was running numbers to see whether it was worth producing one. Anyone got any better information?
Posts: 1210 | Location: Zurich | Registered: 02 January 2002
Blue, My stock is for a .375 and has what D'Arcy called the magnum fill, with makes it a bit heavier. It weighs in at 34 ounces. It does not have a pad installed yet. And it feels very solid and stiff..
D'Arcy's stock handles recoil better than any that I've ever owned before, and it's one of the main reasons why I hunt with Echols "Legend" rifles.
I might suggest that you send your metalwork and stock blank to McMillan for a pillar-bedding job, recoil pad, sling studs, and paint. They built the stock for D'Arcy in the first place, and their bedding work and finish is absolutely tops.
I'm not sure on the lefty's, and I feel like I've been a one man lobying group for them . My first comments were of course sarcastic as I about fell off my chair when someone other than Allen Day or Chuck Nelson recommended those stocks. They're absolutely fantastic in every way, and I have pulled more hair out trying to convince others of that. The "I can't decide between one of those Echols stocks or a Supergrade" line floors me every time.
They're the best bargain out their IMO but.......WE WANT A LEFTY, WE WANT A LEFTY.......See, there I go again, heading to pull out the plackards.
Chuck
Posts: 2659 | Location: Southwestern Alberta | Registered: 08 March 2003
Chuck, I have a Supergrade by McMillin and now this Legend. I hunted the Supergrade all last year. In my opinion, there is absolutely no comparison, the Legend is more appealing in every way. In fact my Supergrade will be coming off to be replaced by another Legend, soon.. Pat Byrne
Is the Legend built for a short M70 action? I have seen the stock (it is, of course, great looking), but is it stiff in the forend? By that, I mean, does it take a fair amount of tension to pull it away from the barrel?
Posts: 1634 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002
Roger, when I last spoke with D'Arcy there was some talk of making the stock work for a short action but I would suggest you contact him to get the correct information.
I have not chambered the barrel for my action yet, consequently I haven't screwed a barreled action into the stock. So, I can't answer your question about forearm rigidity other than to say that the stock "feels" very stiff in your hands when trying to flex it in any direction.
The forearm is plenty stiff. The amasing thing to me being how well it suits and balances a 375 or 300 contour. D'Arcy just hit the nail on the head here. I just about had to use a crow bar on my guide in Alaska last month to bring my rifle home.
Chuck, The thing that holds me back from getting one is that, as far as I know, they are not inletted. I can't inlet one myself, and I don't know who would do it for me.
George
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001
They're inletted, and I think that D'Arcy can get pretty specific about desired barrel contour with McMillan. The LH stocks, if they become reality, most likely will not have the bolt and ejection port cut in them to accomodate lefty use of RH actions. If available I would order one just as D'Arcy gets them in his shop and have a gunsmith massage the barrel channel and make the bolt and ejection port cut while bedding the action. If I was in the US, I wouldn't hesitate, as Allen sugests, to send the barreled action to McMillan for final fitting and bedding.
Chuck
Posts: 2659 | Location: Southwestern Alberta | Registered: 08 March 2003
George, they are not truely blanks per se. You have to order the stocks straight from D'arcy and he calls it in to McM. You can have the barrel channel large enough to handle a #5 contour. You need to also specify caliber since it will dictate the fill in the stock. The only spec's that are set in stone are the stocks are currently made for either M70 or Pre-64 actions right hand long actions only. You may specify different bottom metal (Williams, Blackburn, Sunny Hill etal) but this will render the order a custom order and D'arcy will request up front full payment. Standard stock inletting is for factory 2 piece bottom metal. I received this info from D'arcy from a recent query about ordering a Legend stock.
It has been a while since I spoke to D'Arcy about these in LH but he gave me some numbers -
McMillan wants about $20,000 to make the mold. Then they want a minimum order of 100 stocks at however many bucks per pop - I think D'Arcy said it would cost him about $30,000 out of pocket to produce the left hand Legends.
Also mentioned that, when he asks, 100 people speak up immediately and say "yeah, I'll definitely take one", but then when he calls back to ask for money, it's "uh, well, yeah, uh, ya see, well.."
Hey - one of you guys that hunt elephants and stuff a lot - how about donating part of the trophy fee for one ele to D'Arcy so he can get these LH Legends going?
Btu seriously, folks - we may yet get left handed McMillan fiberglass Legends, but until then D'Arcy will make a a left hand Legend in a laminate - he likes the Obiche laminate - if that's a viable option for anyone.
Like Rancher, I just received my Legend stock last Thursday as well. Mine is also for the MRC 1999, may have been run-off together. Will be a while still before I have some "guts" to put in it, so I'll have to wait a bit before I can test drive it. I looked at, and even bought, a few of the non-mcmillan competitors out there, and this stock suits my tastes and fits so much better it is unbelieveable. I have no interests here, just passing along my thoughts.
I must say that D'Arcy was really excellent to talk to and deal with, but most importantly, I love the look and feel of this stock. It is very hard to ojectively quantify as I've not shot with it, but it just feels right.
Someone asked about weight, well mine will be in .300 win mag, so D'Arcy said to go with the sporter weight fill (300 mag being the cut-off on that), and mine weighs exactly 29 ounces as is. D'Arcy indicated that all done, would be right about 2lbs 2 oz.
Also, they come out of the mold with a 14in LOP, so us taller guys don't have to go through the spacer deal.
Also, George S, I think the confusion is over the lack of a bolt notch and ejection port. The stock is not cut for these two fairly small details, but is otherwise completely inletted.
Really too bad for you Lefties, I hope something can happen for you guys!
Quote: Also, George S, I think the confusion is over the lack of a bolt notch and ejection port. The stock is not cut for these two fairly small details, but is otherwise completely inletted.
Really too bad for you Lefties, I hope something can happen for you guys!
--Bob
Thanks, Bob. That clears it up.
George
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001
I would also recommend sending one of these stocks to Mark Penrod for the bedding and finishing. I did just that last year on a 30/06 for my son and it turned out very well. He also barreled the action with a Krieger barrel, blued the metal and overall did one great job.
Posts: 1148 | Location: The Hunting Fields | Registered: 22 May 2002
$20,000 for a mold? This is what we do and I guess I know why we are busy. We like to make money but we don't need to retire on one job. See our guarantee, it's easy when you have never had one to repair! www.robertsoncomposites.com
No, don't mind as I believe D'Arcy himself stated the price on this forum at some point in time. He charges $300 for the stock and flat rates the shipping at $15, so for $315, you get it to your door.
Not unreasonable IMHO, and keep in mind that this is the ONLY way you can get these.
By the way, don't know if it was pointed out or not, but they come without a recoil pad and without swivel studs.
Thanks, BB. Got pics? I can't seem to locate a website. Got website, too? Do you know if the Legend will handle a #4 Shilen contour? My M1999 is going to be a .375/.338 WM (.375 Taylor).
MKane160 aka BigDogMK
Posts: 488 | Location: TN | Registered: 03 January 2004
Robertson summed it up best. McMillan is trying to pay for everything without taking any risk plus make a huge profit. This mindset is pretty common with Mcmillan. I've lost count of how many gunsmiths,I've heard say that McMillan stocks are great,the problem is the owners are a bunch of assholes.
Twenty grand is fuckin' insane and Echols out of pocket exspense of 30 grand is a real joke. When you consider that there probably isn't 20 dollars worth of materials used in a fiberglass stock,especially since everything is bought in bulk. Then you have Mcmillan wanting the public to pay for the mold 5 times over at least,then a order of at least 100 stocks. Say the stocks go for a conservative 300 dollars,thats fifty grand for not doing anything. Every business would like this type of profit and operational exspense.
As soon as Echols offered this stock design as a part,he left himself open to having this design copied. The dimentions are there in the open and available to anybody willing to fabricate this stock and there is no shortage of guys like Robertson who have the means and ability to do so.
On top of this,there simply isn't anything really special about the stock. You'll hear all kinds of fairy tales about how wonderful and mythical it is. I've had the oppurtunity to shoot a legend in 300 win mag and the stock didn't handle any better then the super grade design.I've shot plenty of stock configurations and there is little differance in shoot ability and managed recoil among the super grade,Millers Lt design,remingtons classic and Brownells M77.
Mostly what you have,is guys trying to justify why they spent 10 grand on a refurbished M70. Judging by some of the comments made by echols,sales aren't all that hot either.The Factory is now even using spring steel extractors,which leaves you with what? The super special echols magazine design,scope mounts,super special stock and widely available Kreiger barrel.
Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002
I still live in the digital stone age and don't have a digital camera. Will try and borrow from a friend and send you some. I do believe that Allen Day had posted (or posted for him) some pics of his complete Legend rifle highlighting the stock, at one point on this forum.
No, I don't believe there is a website up either, yet. As to barrel coutour, D'Arcy said that it would "comfortably" fit a #5, so I think you would be good.
It looks like D'Arcy and McMillan had better move over and make room for stock companies and custom riflebuilders who make equivalent products that are not only as good or better, but (and here's the magic word!) CHEAPER!
I have spoken to Dick at McMillan twice about them building a stock for our #5 action. He qouted me I beleive,$5000.00 to make a mold.The price went down depending on the number of stocks ordered. I don't beleive D'Arcy was quoted correctly. By the way these are not injection molds they are much lower tech. < !--color-->
Posts: 20 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 10 February 2004
Oh no,they just have to be 20 or 30 grand. You must be a bitter asshole like myself.
D'arcy was quoted correctly,he just multiplied the figure by six and came up with a price he could live with. Its kind of like his bargain M70 he sells for 10 grand.
Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002
