There's a cocking knob, of sorts, on the back of the bolt of my .303. Was the purpose of this for a soldier to carry a live round in the chamber with the bolt uncocked? If not, then what is the purpose? If a round is loaded and the bolt is closed uncocked, seems like the pin would be exposed outside the bolt face and resting on the primer. If this is the case, I'd be a bit leary of that practice.
I'd appreciate somebody THAT KNOWS educating me on this.

Puncher

The Lee Enfield actually has a half-cock notch on the striker. Withthe striker in the half-cock positon, the trigger cannot be pulled and the firng pin is not protruding. Apparently, this feature was ommitted for a time but brought back by popular demand. Regards, Bill.

Bill,
Still not sure about my question. Was the rifle designed with the intention to be able to carry a live round in the chamber with the bolt uncocked?

Puncher:

As Bill said, the hammer is set up to facilitate the use of the half-cock feature.

Yes it can be closed fully on a live round, but it's not advisable. Any hammer gun with a half-cock set up can have the hammer let down on a live round if the shooter so pleases.

The halfcock has always been a feature of this action throughout its manufacture. It's purpose is to prevent the rifle from firing if the bolt is not sufficiently closed, then the firer can pull the cocking peice back to full cock and make sure the bolt is closed before firing. Quicker to do than write about. There should be a safety catch on the lefthand side of the action or on the cocking piece.

I posted almost the exact same question on a local (Oz) forum, and one of the guys posted this link:

http://www.raemensw.com/articles/tech_articles/303_mechanical_safety.pdf

'raemensw' is an acronym for the 'Royal Australian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers NSW' part of our Army.

btw, the forum is Autralian Hunting Net, and can be found here:

http://www.australianhunting.net/phpBB2/index.php

They're as good a bunch of guys as you'll find anywhere.

I've used this feature to deal with military ammunition that mis-fires. Without opening the bolt, pull back on the cocking piece and press the trigger again.
Cheers...
Con

So how will you decide who "knows".
The original designer is prob. dead by now.

It would definatly NOT have anything to do with
having it decocked while loaded. As you said
with the fireing pin and primer.

As already stated here, it makes for a very safe carry on HALF cock with the bolt locked closed.
Getting it into half cock may be another safety matter.
As already stated here, it's very handy for another go at the primer, and may be the original intention, as recocking the piece with
the cock on closing system would be awkward.
And who wants to unlock the thing immediatly after a primer failure anyway?
Same system as on the Swedish Mauser I think.
Both good old clunkers.
That other poster re half cock catch if not fully locked up sounds good also, and could be
easly tried.
Damned sorry if I don't fit into the those who
know catagory.
JOhn L.

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
I've used this feature to deal with military ammunition that mis-fires. Without opening the bolt, pull back on the cocking piece and press the trigger again.
Cheers...
Con

Con,

This was what was taught to those of us who volunteered for the Civil Defence in India. I love the old Enfields and am looking seriously for a sporter based on them. Beautiful guns!

Further to my previous post, I started my military training with SMLE's, and we were taught that it was for use in battle - you can run with a loaded rifle, and get into action very quickly by pulling the cocking piece back, and when sneaking up on the enemy, the feature makes for a very quiet approach.

AFAIK, it was never 'intended' to be used to re-fire a hangfire - that's a handy adaptation of the feature.

Hey fello SMLE shooters,

I love mine. Both because my Marines got it for me when I got out and because I love the sights.

It's not painful to shoot and shoulder recoil isn't bad, but I think it kicks me in the cheek worse than anything up to the .416's I've shot. Is this just stock shape? Or shooting left-handed? Or is it getting down hard on the stock to line up the iron sights I like so much?

Anybody else find the standard stock beats up the cheek? It "feels" like a much heavier or faster caliber than it actually is. And the rifle isn't light, either. Any ideas?

Steve

skl1,

I have never had the problem that you talk about with your Enfield and I have shot both the SMLEs and No 4s as well as the IOF 315 Sporters. Frankly, I don't like recoil and that is why I love the Enfields. I agree that they work really well and like much more powerful rifles especially with the 215 grain round nose bullets.

I have only used open sighted rifles as my eyes have been good enough for me to use them until now. Maybe, if you use your rifle with a scope, it might cause problems like you describe. Not having used one, I don't know.

Good hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by rugeruser:
Further to my previous post, I started my military training with SMLE's, and we were taught that it was for use in battle - you can run with a loaded rifle, and get into action very quickly by pulling the cocking piece back, and when sneaking up on the enemy, the feature makes for a very quiet approach.

AFAIK, it was never 'intended' to be used to re-fire a hangfire - that's a handy adaptation of the feature.

With all due respect, to you and the Military.
What is often taught is not always right.
What is wrong with the safety supplied?
It's easer to put on than to decock to half way
and easer to push of the safety than pull back
the "hammer".
The only benifit I can see in combat is that at
least half cock locks the bolt down. But teaching the average soldier to have two ways
of shooting during the heat of battle is not
good, I don't reckon.
Re hangfire/handy? do you whip open the bolt straight after one?
JL

quote:

Originally posted by skl1:

It's not painful to shoot and shoulder recoil isn't bad, but I think it kicks me in the cheek worse than anything up to the .416's I've shot.

I have not had that problem, and never heard of it with the SMLE. You must have a lot of cheek
(bones) :-)
But having said that as memory churns slowly,
my first go at sporterizing my SMLE included
"carving" away a little of the stock, I think more for windage alignment?
And if not held firmly that brass butplat kicked
me like a mule.
JL.

JAL,

I posted this link on the 23rd, but obviously you haven't read it in it's entirety.

http://www.raemensw.com/articles/tech_articles/303_mechanical_safety.pdf

After you've had a look at it, especially the last three paragraphs, you might like to contemplate the situation regarding close quarters combat... (as distinct from armchair conjecture). After you've read that, you might like to get back to me.

Any rifle with the safety 'on' can be subject to AD, including the SMLE, Mauser 98, Win 70, Rem 700, Ruger 77, etc., etc. A SMLE at 'half cock' cannot be discharged unless there is a total failure of certain components.

FWIW, I never rely on the safety on my rifle, (as far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy with a rifle without a safety) and will not hunt with anybody who does.

Rugeruser, with due respect, I never read any of
your other site, usually too little time and too
many other posts. And sometimes these other sites get me bogged down in all sorts of bother.
But I take exception of "armchair".
And If you think anything from the "Military"
is perfect, than YOU check up on Mil history
and get back to me.
AD a SMLE, you must be kidding. With the safety
on, can't believe it.
It MAY be possible when putting the half cock on.
Um speaking of Military, cock ups do seem to happen quite often. Not my opion, doc. fact.
Armchair is it. Cold,wet,shaky fingers pulling
the bolt head back to get a suddenly needed shot off, it's a wonder we won.
I'll try to get time to read your other site
soon, but you don't want to believe all you read. Esp from Generals maybe.
John L.

Hey, just got breakfast for myself at 2.15pm
the shoot has started out at the range, but
I read Rugeruser's um site, too tired to think
of the correct term.
Sounds right to me, now i'm left wondering why
they had the safety at all.
And I have posted long and oft somewhere? I don't use safties any more either. Mostly I think because of lousy trigger designs that may go bump/bang. In fact my latest toy, the trigger is not supposed to be set under 3.5 lbs
and when I went under that the safety refused to
function. So undaunted I locked the safety off and bugger it anyway.
seeing as I don't get a bolt half safety, I just
leave the bolt handle up. It takes a slight push forward and then right down to get into action.
I was amused at Rugeruser not shooting with anyone using a safety, fully understandable for
sure, I was with a character, friend of a friend
I think he was, who had his 94 30-30 with the
hammer right down on the primer. I mentioned it
to him, for all the good it did. Anyway guess
who got the shot off when a pig jumped up.
I don't go shooting in groups anymore, TWO is a crowd.
Speaking of safetys, has anyone been shot by someone using Brno arseabout/backward ones??
JOhn L. (heading out to the range)

We all have our crosses to bear, it's whether we allow them to become 'excuses' that counts.

FYI, it's a one page .pdf file... if that helps.

In this situation, we're not talking 'military history' and it's attendant cock-ups (there are heaps of those) - I'm referring to actual combat situations using a SMLE on half cock...

Apart from armchair conjecture, what exactly is your experience with SMLE's (or any other firearm), for that matter?

Can't quite follow your post.
In my last one, I said I had read your "site"
and I said "IT SOUNDS RIGHT TO ME".
Now if like some other Aussies here you can't
seem to comprehend, that reads to me, I WAS
WRONG". Happy now?.
And, my computer spat the dummy on exit your
"site", I had to pull it out of the wall, and
then put up with it telling me I did an illigal
shut down.

And while I was sitting in my armchair, the thought came to me that the information given
in the web site, seemed more like special ops
than normal basic soldering.
But YOU AND THEY WERE STILL PROBABLY RIGHT ON
THE USE OF THE HALF COCK. (So don't go off half
cocked).
As for my experence, that's my business, but
I think I indicated right from the start that I
was giving my opinion, whether the original poster wanted it or not. So did others, and a good crosssection of uses of the bolt head was
discussed. I hope you didn't mind too much.
I didn't really care too much, and just expected
the original poster to check your web site.
However I've been waving SMLE's around since 1957 ish, sometimes in uniform, used them in the NT on a Buff,and other game down to the deer
in the Bne area.
BUT, I had no use for the half cock, and had other things to worry about.
I did use it sometimes on the unwary, putting it
on when they wern't looking and watching the fun
when they tried to lift the bolt.
Seeing your an Aussie, I will repeat, I am not
trying to change the subject.
I WAS WRONG, YOU WERE RIGHT, OK ?
John L.

JAL,

my apologies... I have just re-read your second post, and unreservedly retract my comments... mea culpa

I was not looking for a 'you are right/wrong...' response, I'm old enough to know that there only ever 'points of view'...

What range do you shoot at?

Jeepers, if I said Tenterfield, Karl would come
down and bang my head off the target frame.
Anyway no problem, I know I have trouble writing, and that makes me touchy, and confuses
everyone else.
John L.

Hehe, my son and I were up your way in January - just a bit over the border to the north, hunting fallow - got a few kilo's of meat for the freezer...

Looks like there might be some good stuff come the rut.

Probably can't make it up there again until mid year, maybe we could catch up for a beer?

Given our age(s), maybe we should make that a cup of camomile tea...

You mentioned the arseabout BRNO/CZ safeties - yeah, my son's got a CZ527 in 223 - really nice gun, but that friggin' safety gets me everytime we do a military shoot...

Sure, I'll try a PM with my address, don't want
any headbangers dropping in, but someone called Rugeruser can't be all bad?
The bloody pro shooters are makeing a mess of
anything edible around here, sneeking around at night and all, soon be nothing left to shoot but cats. . . or does some country eat them too.
JL.

A good stoush died right out.
But OK, doesn't a springfield 03 and a Swedish
Mauser have a cockable end on the fireing pin
which doesn't lock anything. And if so would
this be just to rehit a recalcitrant primer??
John L.