The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Was there ever a Sako A1 action??Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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This question may seem totally superfluous, after all, it is common knowledge there was at one stage the AI, AII, AIII and AV (was there an AIV as well?) models were offered for sale. So I have always believed that there was an AI action. But the question is, was there actually?? One knowledgable poster on here, once posted the following approximate history of the Sako actions: Quote: A poster over on Benchrest.com maintained that there was not an AI action, and they were either L461 or L491s. I thought him slightly bonkers. After all, everybody knew of an A1 model.... Besides, the L461 has an open boltshroud, and the A1 has a closed shroud. But it kept troubling me. Of late, I happened to look again at a mail I got from Sako regarding the serial number of an L461: Quote: Apart from the fact that there may be one or two inaccuracies in that mail, what did catch my eye was that Sako maintains the L461 was produced until 1992. That would make an A1 into an L461. Confused. - mike | ||
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MHO, Sitting in my lap as I type this is a marked Sako AI serial number 1819xx caliber .222 Remington. In looking at the time line below, there area few errors: Short Series L46 detachable mag 22 hornet. 218 Bee, 222, 7x33 Sako L461 fixed mag 222 Rem L469 222 Rem mag and 223 length A1 was the improved L469 came in with Stoeger ownership in late 1970's 491 1992 to 1997 Aluminum removable recoil lug Medium action L57 safety on bolt shroud L579 AII 591 Long magnum Action L61R pre 1972 L61R without third recoil lug foward of bolt handle 1972-1978 AIII Short tang, bolt shroud, no third recoil lug AV Longer tang 691 Bob | |||
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Thanks for bring up Sako actons. Since you have made such a great listing of them now I have a question that I havent been able figure which ones are controlled round feed or which models are sized for what cartridge. Can you help me with this? I am also having the same problem with sizez for the old BRNO actions. | |||
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Shadow, I suppose it becomes a semantic question whether an action is an A1 or an L461. If it is stamped A1, it could (and very likley should) be designated A1. And as we know, actions from the late 70's were indeed stamped AX (X=1, 2, 3, 5). Whether these actions were to some percentage the same as the L461, is perhaps interesting, but should not make us change our designation of them. As a matter of fact, Sako chose the designation, we did not. I know that at some point in time, Sako changed the bolt shroud from at least the earlier L461s to the closed model used in the A1. What other differences there may be between the two actions is certainly an interesting subject. We do know, that the A1 kept the integral recoil lug, that only disappeared with the advent of the 491 - sadly. I think what confused me, was that Sako themselves in that mail I included above, chose to indicate that the L461 was manufactured until 1992, a date we normally associate with the cessation of production of the A1 action. That confuses the issue. - mike | |||
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Don't forget the other short action which was the predecessor to the L-46...the L-42, which was developed as a Seal rifle (fur seals, not Navy Seals). It came out in several cartridges, the first of which was the 7x33 Sako. That cartridge, BTW, was developed because in 1942 the only brass-making machinery available to SAKO for sporter use was for 9 m/m Parabellum...and the longest case which it was practical to make on that machinery was 33 m/m. The Finns also wanted their new rifle to be in a uniquely "Finnish" chambering, as a point of national pride. Most of the L-42 rifles sold new in Australia and Brazil, rather than in countries where there was an abundance of fur. All this per a letter I received in 1978 or '79 from one of the designers involved, who even then in the late '70s was semi-retired. AC | |||
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M1Tanker, there were some VERY early Sakos that were based on Mauser actions, but other than that none of the Sakos were CRF. Actions like the AIII and AV have what looks like a non rotating (claw) extractor. Don't be fooled by that apperance. It is not an extractor, it is a gas baffle. None of the Sako actions listed in the original post had CRF. What actions fitted what cartridges is somewhat more complicated. The original post also had some information here, and I'm positive it will be corrected/completed by some of the true Sako afficionados in here. - mike | |||
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Quote: Thanks for the info. I always assumed that they claw extractor on Sako's were CRF. I am glad I passed on a 375 a couple weeks ago. I want my safari rifle to be CRF. | |||
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MHO, Shadow; I also have an early sako but it does not indicate what action it is.. N  440xx serial#, cal is .222 detachable mag. The action is dove tailed for scope base front and rear marked left side Sako Riihimaki right side marked made in Finland. the bolt has a square shrowd that is checkered on top Barrel has a hooded front sight and NO rear sight(i think the rear sight may have been mounted on the front or rear dove tail) Do you have any history or information on this one as well?? all i could ever find about it is either a standard sporter or a delux model. the stock is maple or cherry? And 16 line checkering. Thanks, Dave | |||
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Dave I can't tell you much about the exact model. But a .222 Rem with a detachable magazine and the stamping "Riihimaki" almost certainly makes it an L46 action. (Riihimaki btw is the place where the Sako factory is - or used to be?). Another L46 attribute is a safety mounted on the bolt shroud. - mike | |||
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According to "Sako 1921-1971" (published only in Finnish as far as I know) which is an official Sako-authorized publication, the following is the time-line laid out for Vixens on pages 46/47. L-42 - Development begun late 1941- began production '42, ended production early '46. L-46 - Development 1945 - began production late '46/early'47, ended production 1963 L469 - Development late 1958 - began production 1960, ended production 1963 L461 - Development 1959 - began production late 1960/early 1961, production not ended by 1971. You'll no doubt note there is a period of almost a year in 1946 when Sako says there were NO Vixens produced, between ending of L-42 production and beginning of L-46 production. My guess is your rifle is a Deluxe L-46, all of which came into the U.S. apparently with a hooded front sight, no barrel rear sight, and with an adjustable/removable rear aperature sight mounted on the rear receiver-ring dovetail. If you research the Gun Digest issues from about 1958 on for a few years, you will doubtless find more data on your particular rifle. The 1958 edition, for example, shows the Varmint version, and lists the Heavy Barrel Sporter and the Mannlicher Stocked version as well, but does not mention/show the standard Vixen. The Varmint version shown has the same sight set-up as yours but has a beavertail forend and a heavier barrel. I remember reading a review of your rifle, but haven't had the time to find it so I could refer you to it. It is a fine rifle if still in good condition. AC | |||
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mho, it does have a side safty, Alberta C, the rifle is in very good condition, and is a joy to shoot. i showed the rifle to a person and he offered me $900 he thought it was 95 to 97% there are a couple light scratches on the stock. The blueing is excellent and all original. i do not have the rear peep sight. I contacted the fellow i got the rifle from and he could not remember if it came with a peep or not. it came with a Weaver K10 scope He thought that he had purchased the rifle in the early 50's (53 or 54) would any one have a guess as to the value. Thanks Dave | |||
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Values vary according to market environment. I think the person to whom you showed it probably offered you full value for your/his market. I just bought one, in apparently unfired condition, at the last Roseburg, Oregon, gun show, also without the rear aperture sight and also in .222, for $675 as part of a package deal with two other rifles (total for the three was $1,400, with the Sako valued at $675 of that, including a set of orginal Sako scope-mounting rings)... AC | |||
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Thanks Alberta, We dont get many of these around this part of the country. Like you mine came with the sako scope mounts. I got mine in a good deal from a old fellow who was getting rid of all his guns. I gave him $500 for the sako and a 303 british sporter i sold the 303 to a friend cheap. I have had the sako for several years. I wonder where i might pick up a peep, any ideas? Dave Sorry mho didnt mean to hijack you post. | |||
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Of course, you can usually find one (Sako dovetail peep sight) on either Auction Arms or eBay, but you can expect to pay absolute top dollar buying that way. Unless you are going to keep the rifle as a collector's item, they are not worth the trouble to find, IMO. They are well built sights, but around here the majority of the varmints I'd shoot with a .222 are a tad too small (and often too far away) to be using a peep sight on. The last of my Sako peeps I had lying around, I gave to a fellow gratis a couple of years ago. At that time they were worth maybe $60. It is my understanding that now they bring $100 or more. I don't know if that is realistic, as I haven't tried to actually buy one recently. And, as you know, selling prices do differ somewhat from asking (hoping?) prices. Anyway, even with double cataract-replacement surgery last summer, I still like scopes for the game for which the .222 was intended. Your environment and reasonable opinion may vary, of course. AC | |||
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MHO, My stamped A1 (actually marked AI), is identical to my 461 in 223 caliber, except for the bolt shroud. The timelines for these short actions are: 1942 L-42 1946-1961 L-46 1959-1961 L-469 1961-1972 L-461 1978-1992 A-1 1992-1997 491 The gap between 1972 and 1978 was the garcia era. I have not seen a Garcia marked L-4xx anything, but I sure someone has. Bob | |||
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Hivelocity, Yes, you have an L-46. Not maple or cherry, but probably birch. Some of the early l-46 were made from birch, unitl FI (Firearms International) the original importer of Sako, got them some walnut. Nice little rifle. Bob | |||
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Friends- With these learned Sako collegues assembled here, I would like to ask about a rifle that I own. I have a Sako that is clearly on an FN Mauser Action in .300 H&H. Can anyone tell me what model it is? This thing clover leafs groups all day long. The stock is european walnut. The only thing that bugs me about the stock is that it is a Monte Carlo design. I wish I could find another just like it. Thanks in advance. | |||
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I don't think they ever improved the L-461, they just made the claim..I doubt if it could be improved other than the edition of a M-70 3 pos. safty like on my 6x45, but it was made by Tony Barnes out of a piece to bull barrel..Lovely addition to a wonderfull little rifle... The Rhaahhmaki Series and the L-Series were great guns, and after that Sako obviously started is course down hill to its disgracefull self with the advent of the most ridiculas bunch of bean counters in the history of gundom.....    | |||
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30 Cal mag fan, I don't know if they had a model number, but, I do know they were made from 1950-1957 on FN actions in 270, 30-06, 8x60s, 300 H&H, 9.2x62, and 375 H&H. You see them for sale on Gunbroker every so often. Bob | |||
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Shadow, AC, guys, it is great when everybody pitches in! I know it is only "firearms trivia", but it is a bunch of fun nevertheless. It certainly looks like the AI (as you have correctly noted it is marked) only appeared after the Garcia import years. During that unfortunate period, a mixture of actions seem to have been included into the product - although I have also heard of the action (and rifle) designs actually changing during this period - ostensibly catering to the tastes of the US shooting public, in reality pissing everybody off in the process. This unfortunate period seems to be everybody's pet gripe, even to the point where rifles from this period are sometimes described as boat anchors. I personally doubt it was as bad as that, but apparently quality did suffer towards the end of Garcia import period. When Stoeger took over the import, things seemed to settle down again. Maybe that was the reason they introduced new action designations throughout the entire line? -mike | |||
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