Curious what cutters everyone like for there hand tools. I have W. E. Brownell handles, but I see that Brownells now only lists the Gunline and Dem-Bart cutters. I have some Bem-Bart cutters, but I they seem to have a large radius on the cutting edge which does not leave a sharp bottom to the grooves. It also makes it not want to follow the grooves from the spacing tools quite as well as it could. On poor quality wood when you have a hard spot on one side and a soft spot on the other side, they tend to cut on the soft side more than the old Brownell cutter did causing your spacing to vary slightly.

Recent events have caused me to decide give up on trying to hire gunsmiths, at least for a while anyway, and only buy custom guns on the used market, and anything I want done, do it myself. So, I dug out the old checkering tools and started scratching. I've not done any checkering for nearly 20 years, and the first thing I discovered is that I am freaking blind! I could not figure out why I was not able to see what I was doing, so I went upstairs and asked the wife for a pair of her old reading glasses, WOW, what a difference. So, call brownells and order a optivisor.

Thanks,
John

John, switch over to the carbide V cutters and get the longer one to run your line. I think you will find that they work best.

I use the W.E. Brownell wire parts but make my own handles and little larger.

It sounds like you have reached about 43 years old and your arms are getting shorter. Ha Ha
It happened to me also and I now have the optivisor in 3 different powers for different lengths of work. Very close up is down to 10X

Make yourself a good cradle and get the room dark then use a 75 watt bulb to cast shadows from the right side if your are right handed.

LOL, good guess, 44 last July. I'll give the carbide cutters a try. I generally space with the light on, but then turn the overhead lights out and do as you say for cutting to depth.

Thanks

I use a magnifying lamp I bought new for about $50. Provides good light on the subject and allows me to see much better with the magnification. Carbide cutters do last a lot longer.

So you are not going to hire gunsmiths, just ask them for free advice? ; >

Mine would be to give up on the "poor quality wood".

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
So you are not going to hire gunsmiths, just ask them for free advice? ; >

You just made my day!

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
So you are not going to hire gunsmiths, just ask them for free advice? ; >

Mine would be to give up on the "poor quality wood".

Yea, something like that. After I posted the question and re-read it, I suspected it might be coming across that way. Maybe if I had a few positive experiences with some gunsmiths I would have a different attitude right now, but that is a topic for another day. While I do not make my living with wood and steel, I do make my living in another area of the custom rifle industry, and I have given my fair share of free advice.

Agreed on your wood comment. It is interesting that while I am generally unhappy with my stock finishes, the one finish that I was happy with is the one stock that I made using a decent piece of english walnut.

This is actually the stock I tried to hire a "gunsmith" to finish and checker, but he decided to send the stock back and keep my deposit. I don't really want to sink more $ into this project.

Thanks,
John

For someone wanting to try checkering for themselves what would be the minimal tool set or seperates would it be best to get. I am a confident woodworker and have built a few stocks from good grades of wlanut but also have a couple of lesser types to practice on after mastering??? techniques on scrap walnut.

Von Gruff.

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
For someone wanting to try checkering for themselves what would be the minimal tool set or seperates would it be best to get.

Von Gruff.

*** I'd suggest: Monte Kennedy's book on checkering. 1 Dem-Bart 60 degree veiner, Gunline S-2 and S-3 cutters in what ever LPI you want, Gunline V-edger 60 degrees, and PL-90F Pointer and handles. A very sharp scribe, flexible plastic ruler, and a fine point grease pencil.
Available from Midway or Brownell's Good luck.

Can you please let me know how I can make a cradle for checkering? thanks

Nakihunter,
2X4X26 inches, oak wood, 1/2 X 1 inch metal end pieces, rotating center holder, adjustable to any position on the cradle, standard trailer bearing in 2X2 inch square steel tube, 4 inches long, 3X5 in. channel welded to 3/4 in. shaft
Picture shows my own cradle
It is compac, simple, and easy to make
Brownell's ask about making and offering my design for sale, don;t know if they have started on this project as of now

Brownell's sells one that works and is cheap. A good place to start. Just modify it as you see necessary for your use.

Thanks guys - as always great help. I'll copy & paste this on to my personal shooting stuff encyclopaedia!

Les,

Any chance we could get some close ups of the headstock, tailstock, and vise swivel?

Thanks,

Here is the swivel apart and front parts

Head end has a machine leveling screw to rotate the butt end and change angles when turning.

Les,

Thanks for posting. Very innovative ad well done!

Les that is very useful. What do you do for a rifle stock?

I have never done checkering before but am keen to start / learn. A local hunting club member has promised to get me started and said that if I had the patience to do my Mannlicher stock by myself including oil finish, I should be able to do checkering.

Dall85

Here is another trick that I learned years ago to keep the carbide cutter working. This same diamond steel which is the metal part from the Eze Lap diamond steel sold be Brownells in mediun grit. File the edge to a knife edge and then you can get to the bottom of the angle to sharpen a dull tool. This same diamond steel works well on the W. E. Brownell cutters to make them last longer and cut better. In my earlier days we made our own checkering cutters.

I have never seen this info offered before.

Nakehunter,
The steel parts can be reversed and also you could make the steel parts longer or the wood longer. I don't like to have extra parts hanging out on the ends to run into and poke me in the guts. The Brownell cradle is fair, but it is too long for me and hard to work around. I had tried several types of cradles over the years and the one I show work best for me.

When I made my cradle, I made a short and a long spine board to accommodate shotgun stocks and rifle stocks with comfort in mind.

WE NEED MORE SHOW AND TELL. Post pictures of your work and cradles for all see your ideas. I have made pictures of work all the way back into the 1950's. Who would have known that the PC age would allow us to pass info along so easy to the trade. A cheap Digital camera is a great tool for gunsmiths.

Just my 2ct worth
I see my hour glass is almost to the bottom

This is good stuff guys and following it with interest. Have got Monty's book so will have to make a start on tool order soon and give it a crack. Have confidence in stockwork but this checkering thing is a bit daunting to say the least.

Von Gruff.

Here are the tools I use for 99.44% of my work. I've shown only one Brownell's see-thru handle but I have 3 in regular use: 1 with a carbide Pointer-Long mounted backwards, 1 for right-hand spacing and 1 for left-hand spacing. Kinda like a farmer who has a separate tractor for each attachment so he doesn't hafta stop to change 'em (grin). I really like the Brownell's handles because their cutter angles are adjustable and their twin shafts help me keep the tool perpendicular to the work as I turn the stock.

The 2 layout templates made from X-ray film are dimensioned differently, one is a 3:1 diamond ratio and the other is a 3.5:1 ratio, one has the usual short-pendant fleur while the other has a droop-point fleur. The long parallel-sided strip is used to span ribbons during the layout, to keep all the rows aligned for the admirer's eye to follow across the entire pattern with no accidental jigs from one side of a ribbon to the other in the next panel. I also occasionally use a pair of dividers during the layout and am fabbing some skew chisels to use in cutting some of the mullered borders. I've shown a short-stroke handle (even though I don't usually use it), again with its cutter mounted backwards, for use in the short rows.

Any competent smith can soon fab an acceptable jointer but I've found that I must buy my veiners, the one shown is from Brownell's and is the only satisfactory one IMO. It takes a very sharp edge and a skilled workman, even somewhat of an artist, to do good veiner work. But good veiner work is quite necessary for the more-complicated patterns and of course is absolutely essential for any carving at all.

Please note that these tools are not part of a set, each can be bought separately so therefore buying a set is not necessary and IMO is somewhat wasteful. Over the years I've inadvertently acquired 3 separate sets of checkering tools, both Dem-Bart and Gunline, and have ended up giving all of them away except the one short-stroke tool.
Regards, Joe

J.D.

We made our own when I was teaching checkering at TSJC. I made both the 60 and 90 degrees veiners. I use the 60 for most of the carving and the 90 degree for my checker as I like the 90 checkering the best.

Here is how it was done.

Buy a 90 degree milling cutter about 1 inch in diameter and the same except for the 60 degrees. These are like a key way milling cutters for the mill. Make a back plate 1/2 X 1 X 6 inches long. Set up in the mill and mark a reference line on this plate with the top and edge of the mill vise. Mill a V channel all the way across the piece about .075 deep length wise for a 1/8 X 6 inch piece of drill rod to set into for milling the Veiner. Hold the drill rod with the mill vise and make sure you are horizonal to the mill. Only mill about 1 inch for the cutting edge to about .085 deep. File away to be parrallel to the type of veiner you are making. Shape with the curve that you want with a small propane torch. Make angle filed from the bottom of the veiner up to the inside cuts. Make all cuts before hardening with propane torch to keep from burning the light metal away. Stone with a knife edge hard Arkansas stone on the inside to deburr only. All other sharpening is done from the outside of the V.

Try using a small engravers hammer to drive the Veiner for carving. There is no built up pressure trying to push the cutter and I find I can control the Veiner much better and make smoother cuts.

Les

Les, I greatly appreciate your explanation and would be ecstatic to be able to follow your suggestions, but I have no mill and no place to put one if I had one. So I'm reduced to using mainly hand tools, with some small milling capability in the lathe but it's mighty flimsy.
Regards, Joe