I'm not sure where this belongs but I'll start here. My son is looking for a gun safe, capacity of about 20 guns, good fire resistance, and maybe 6 feet tall. It's been 20 years since I purchased my safe and I am wondering what is currently a "smart buy. Price is not a huge factor."

I will let you know in a couple weeks if my choice was a good one.
I own a 40 gun safe (in my garage), marketed as a "Diamond Back" but actually made by Cobalt.

http://www.cobaltsafes.com/CM/V16/Welcome.aspx

It has not been tested until about a week ago when a vagrant decided to try to get into it with a sledge hammer.
The Company is fixing it at no charge!
If they do that, I am 100% buying another bigger one to go with it!

Whenever someone thinks gun safes they immediately think of Cabelas, Gander Mountain and Wallyworld. Something that you never want to dismiss with safes are the actual little lock safe companies. When I started this last shop I had intended to buy a 40 gun safe from Cabelas or Wholesale Sports. I dismissed the safe companies as being firms that did contract work for banks and the like but I needed a new lock set for the front door of the shop so I popped into a local lock and safe shop to pick one up. To my surprise they had about 5 huge double lock, double door narcotic safes made from 1/2 inch plate steal which had been removed from the London Drugs chain stores when they upgraded to walk in, temperature controlled safe rooms. I picked one up for $1,100 and hind/sight being 20/20 I wish I had bought all 5. It holds about 30 guns and kick knacks and weighs over a ton loaded. Its not a fire safe, but a house fire would have to burn pretty hot for 3/4 of an hour to heat it up to any sort of dangerous temperature for the contents to be ruined. Some times you get lucky.

ADD NOTE: The fool thing has a taper proof, glass break in the door and the only way into it is a cutting torch or wand. A sledge hammer wouldn't even dent half inch steel. It has both a mechanical and electronic quick entry lock after the mechanical combination has been unlocked. Like I said. I wish I had bought all five.

Good advice above.
There are many good safe manufacturers and most make several models.
You get what you pay for.
The capacity rating on safes is way optimistic, if you need to store 20 guns get a 36-30 capacity safe.

www.sturdysafe.com is worth a look, they make nice safes.

Safes will hold more long guns thad advertised if you store them in the 69 position. meaning, some butt down and some muzzle down; they fit much better that way. Of course, you can't get to the back ones easily.

If I buy another safe it's going to be one I can assemble where I want myself and take it with me myself.

The ones I got came from old factories years ago at good prices.

Snap Safe

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Safes will hold more long guns thad advertised if you store them in the 69 position. meaning, some butt down and some muzzle down; they fit much better that way. Of course, you can't get to the back ones easily.

A friend of mine was complaining that his safe would only hold twenty guns. I opened the bolts and to his bewilderment it then held twenty six. Then stood one upside right, the next upside down and so on. Then it held over thirty.

Not unlike having thirty engineers jump out of Volkswagen. I can't remember exactly who said it. But the trick is to stuff the head of the first clown up the butt of the second. And so on. he he he

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
Whenever someone thinks gun safes they immediately think of Cabelas, Gander Mountain and Wallyworld. Something that you never want to dismiss with safes are the actual little lock safe companies. When I started this last shop I had intended to buy a 40 gun safe from Cabelas or Wholesale Sports. I dismissed the safe companies as being firms that did contract work for banks and the like but I needed a new lock set for the front door of the shop so I popped into a local lock and safe shop to pick one up. To my surprise they had about 5 huge double lock, double door narcotic safes made from 1/2 inch plate steal which had been removed from the London Drugs chain stores when they upgraded to walk in, temperature controlled safe rooms. I picked one up for $1,100 and hind/sight being 20/20 I wish I had bought all 5. It holds about 30 guns and kick knacks and weighs over a ton loaded. Its not a fire safe, but a house fire would have to burn pretty hot for 3/4 of an hour to heat it up to any sort of dangerous temperature for the contents to be ruined. Some times you get lucky.

ADD NOTE: The fool thing has a taper proof, glass break in the door and the only way into it is a cutting torch or wand. A sledge hammer wouldn't even dent half inch steel. It has both a mechanical and electronic quick entry lock after the mechanical combination has been unlocked. Like I said. I wish I had bought all five.

This is good direction. Find a real safe professional in your area ( SAVTA.org is a good resource). You will be surprised how real security can be obtained for less $$ that many of the high end "gun safes".

FWIW Very few of the gun safe companies make real safes or high security products. American Security is one of the few that does. Graffunder and Brown come to mind as well.

What has your son assessed his security needs to be?

Something else for you to figure into the equation: delivery and placement of the safe you purchase.

From personal experience I can tell you that whatever the professional safe delivery guys charge to place your safe where you want it...is well worth it. Especially if stairways are involved.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Norman:
Something else for you to figure into the equation: delivery and placement of the safe you purchase.

From personal experience I can tell you that whatever the professional safe delivery guys charge to place your safe where you want it...is well worth it. Especially if stairways are involved.

The harder it is the better the money spent.

I installed both my safes but then I was dealing with a walk out unfinished basement.

The safes are going to be sold with the house.

When I went looking for my first gunsafe, the only one on the market was teh Treadlock chest, which I didn't want. I went searching around the local safe & Lock companies, and I met the owner of Howard's Safe and Lock Co in Philadelphia. Howard was also a safe collector, and he was thrilled to show me his collection and "educate me". that was 40 years ago.

There are two basic types of safes. Fire safes and Entry safes, and a few combo's, but not many.

Fire safes have strong thick doors, and walls, usually 1/4" to 1/2" on the outside with 3/16 or thinner on the inside, and between filled with asbestos or some other fireproof fire resistant material and they are ridiculously heavy.
Old fire safes can be compromised, but in my opinion, not as easily as the commercial gun safes now on the market. An old safe can be "cut and peeled" through the top, back or side..

Entry safes, have heavy doors, usually hardened steel, typically 1/2" or more all around with thicker doors. No fireproofing material sandwiched in.

Both will have what is called a re-locker. If someone attempts to force entry by brute force, smashing off the dial for example, the re-locker pin will break and fall into place permanently locking the safe shut. If that happens, it will need to be professionally drilled to get it open.

The most noticeable thing about the old safes of both types is the gap around the door. take a close look at these old safes. you can't even slip a piece of paper into the gap. Now take a look at the junk being offered on the market today. then go to your toolbox and count how many tools you can get into that gap. A new safe doesn't have to be cut and peeled... if you can get a tool into that gap, it can be forced open... eventually.

Howard ended up selling me a 1920's vintage 6" tall Herring, Hall & Marvin fire/entry safe. 1/2" door, fireproof and 1'4" sides and top with a re-locker and a 3/16" day door with a key. Weighed about a ton.

the bitch of it was moving it. Even though it had 6" steel wheels, I needed a rigger to move it, and every time i moved, it cost me what I paid for the safe to have it moved, so it stayed with the last house it was in.

I'm always on the lookout for a nice old safe for the right price... the Remington safe I have now is a real POS, but it was super cheap. I figure it will hold me till I find what I want.

Hopefull you have found this info helpful.

I also vouch for Sturdy safe. They have regular tumbler locks, if you want. The electronic one make me nervous. They could deliver to my house and install.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Safes will hold more long guns thad advertised if you store them in the 69 position. meaning, some butt down and some muzzle down; they fit much better that way. Of course, you can't get to the back ones easily.

And remove the bolt

Cannon... hands down... the cheap ones have the same warranty as the expensive ones... they stand behind their warranty 100 %... I had one replaced at their expense... and you can get them from academy, cabelas, tractor supply...ive got 3 of them....

I've picked up safes cheap from stores that are going out of business. Jewelry stores are good places to look. You will get a much better safe than the fire boxes that pass for "gun safes". Most will be burglary rated and often can be had at a fraction of the price of a new sporting goods store safe.

Done this a few times, but I'm no expert. There are some good resources on the Internet.

Most gun safes are actually "Residential Security Containers" according to Underwriters' Laboratories. Graffunder makes a Real Safe, but they are expensive. I've not lucked into a vintage safe like some of these guys, but that would be great. Watching a pro move a gunsafe into your home and into position will help you understand how the pyramids were built!

Few things: First, get the safe bolted into the floor, preferably concrete. The quickest way into a gun safe is prying the door open. That's easier to do if they can get the safe on its "back". Also makes it hard to get it onto an appliance dolly and into their truck.

A lot of the gun "safes" you'll find are made in China. There are videos on YouTube of guys showing how they can pop those safes open in under two minutes. You'll want quality steel, not a 10-gauge box. The door needs multiple strong "bolts" to secure it against prying. A recessed door can help with a well-made safe.

Finally, don't have the tools needed to open your safe around. Having a gun safe in your shop where you keep the cutting torch is asking for trouble. Unless you want to keep a keg of Bullseye in it!

Any "gun safe" can be compromised, given sufficient time. And time (plus some fire protection) is all you're buying.

The difference in 12, 10, or even 8 gauge material is negligible if there is a 115 VAC outlet nearby and a thief has the gumption to use a 7" cut-off metal saw ($39.95 at Harbor Freight) on the SIDES, TOP, or BACK of the safe, provided he can get to them. (The door is the place one would naturally attack, but it is actually the hardest to compromise.) However, an opening in the wall or top of the safe large enough to remove all contents therein can be cut in just a few minutes.

Therefore, it is extremely helpful (buys considerably more time) to enclose a safe in such manner that the walls and top are either inaccessible or difficult to access. Even setting the safe in a tight closet which denies working access to the sides and back helps considerably. Framing it in with 2x4's and drywall is only a facade, but you'd be surprised how it will baffle a thief who might otherwise understand how to cut open the bare metal.

But among the best strategies is not to put all of your eggs in one basket. Two or more smaller safes are much better than one large one. Two safes take twice as long to break into, and confusing thieves, who are not all that cerebral to begin with, is easy to do if you present them with too many choices. "Huh, bubba, which one ya think we orter tackle first?"

Everybody needs a place which is fire resistant for important documents and heirloom family photographs, etc. So buy a gun safe (preferably one with a prominent gun manufacturer's logo on it), install it in an easily found and accessed location, and store all of those worthless (to thieves) items in it. Once they've spent all of their time and effort to break into it, only to find your life insurance policy, will, and the photograph of Grandma Jones when she was 6 years old, they'll presumably be both out of time and too disappointed to try breaking into your actual gun safe(s).

I have a Sturdy Safe.I am very happy with it.They sent it all the way from California (I believe) at an extremely good shipping cost.I hired a moving company to bring it in for me.I did not take the fire proof option.I have peace of mind since getting it.Well worth the price.

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
Cannon... hands down... the cheap ones have the same warranty as the expensive ones... they stand behind their warranty 100 %... I had one replaced at their expense... and you can get them from academy, cabelas, tractor supply...ive got 3 of them....

I have a Cannon that I bought at Tractor Supply myself.

I think most of the safes we buy nowadays are probably more appropriately called residential security containers. My Cannon isn't real heavy and its steel body isn't all that thick and I wouldn't trust it to protect everything bar none if the house caught on fire. But, it gives me a secure place to lock everything up and will at least slow a determined thief lacking a torch or plasma cutter down for a bit. That gives me peace of mind that's worth every penny to me.

I second Sturdy Safe in Fresno CA. They have videos on their site that may be on interest regarding some cheap Chinese safes. The ones they crack looks suspiciously like some common ones you might run into with re branded names. Personally I would never own a safe that has a battery operated seloniod to open it. See the video to find out why. Sturdy sells a stout safe with a good lock, made in USA, for a fair price.

I'm in the market for a new safe as well. I currently have a Liberty but Pendleton caught my eye..anyone have any experience with them?

quote:

Pendleton

It has an electronic touch pad. Please go to the Sturdy site and poke around. To open a safe with a an electronic keypad you need a drill and a 9V batterey. Some such safes are even easier. You can uses any electronic touch pad that fits, like how you could use any ford ignition switch to boost a ford car.

Old school tumbler locks are better.

quote:

Lapidary: I've picked up safes cheap from stores that are going out of business. Jewelry stores are good places to look. You will get a much better safe than the fire boxes that pass for "gun safes". Most will be burglary rated and often can be had at a fraction of the price of a new sporting goods store safe.

Ditto.

I, also recommend Sturdy Safe. They are made in the USA.
They have some very good videos on their website about safe construction.
Great people to do business with as well.

quote:

I think most of the safes we buy nowadays are probably more appropriately called residential security containers. My Cannon isn't real heavy and its steel body isn't all that thick and I wouldn't trust it to protect everything bar none if the house caught on fire. But, it gives me a secure place to lock everything up and will at least slow a determined thief lacking a torch or plasma cutter down for a bit. That gives me peace of mind that's worth every penny to me.

This. I did the same thing a few years ago with something that was on sale at TSC. The safe works well, would certainly slow down anyone trying to get in, and offers some fire protection. I didn't have much money to spend, and the deal was sweetened even further by a black Friday sale.